Apartheid alive and well on the Kerry line..

Jferb · 15-02-2008, 16:18

I took the 13:15 from Tralee to Dublin (change at Mallow) today 2 weeks ago (it's a service I use regularly on different days of the week). Our tin can was 30 minutes late arriving in Mallow (apparently due to brake trouble) and low-and-behold, the connecting train from Cork had left without us!

God forbid that the Cork train would be delayed by 20 minutes (we should arrive in Mallow 10 minutes before the Cork train), so instead it was allowed depart on time, and we were subjected to an additional, unnecessary 40 minute delay.

So, an hour later than timetabled, onto the next Cork train! And as if that would be the end of it too! That train stuttered into Heuston an additional 35 minutes late (without explanation!). So instead of arriving in Heuston at 17:15, we ended up arriving at nearly 18:50!!

So, my question is, is there an official IE policy regarding timetabled connections and what happens if one of the connecting trains runs late? I've been late arriving in Mallow many a time before, but never had the experience of the connecting train leaving without us! I think it's grossly unfair that we should be further inconvenienced for the benefit of not disrupting Cork passengers.

To be fair, I will mention 2 redeeming facts on IE's behalf! Firstly, they were quick to hand out refund forms to everyone. In the past, I've had to go hunting for them myself. Secondly, everyone was offered free refreshments in the cafe in Mallow Station..

Thomas Ralph · 16-02-2008, 15:24

Well when you consider the number of people on the Cork-Dublin as against the number of Kerry line passengers, perhaps it is better not to delay the majority.

Mark Gleeson · 16-02-2008, 15:52

The question here really, is how long do you hold the Cork train for? 5, 10, 15 minutes when do you stop? Of course if the Tralee train was still broken at the time the Cork train arrived in Mallow, there was no idea when it might arrive

Had the Tralee train been under 20 minutes late the connection would almost certainly been held, resulting in a 10 minute delay to the Cork train

If you hold the Cork train for more than 15 minutes you cause a massive ripple effect the whole way to Heuston resulting in delays to multiple trains leaving potentially many thousands late, given the Cork train was the 14:30 Cork Dublin this is especially true since it works the 18:00 back to Cork, every evening train out of Heuston would have been delayed if that leaves late

The sad fact there is a cold logical machine which makes the decision, whichever choice results in the least delay which on average is the best for all passengers

The root issue here is the fact the train broke down, addressing that will pay much greater dividends, we don't want to reach the point where there is need to know what the connection policy is since the trains are always ontime

You are entitled to 50% refund on the journey, getting further delayed en route is plain unfortunate

Mark Gleeson · 18-02-2008, 09:24

Information has arrived this morning, the Cork train will be held for not more than 10 minutes, which matches my original post

As I have said, the issue at hand is poor punctuality, fix that instead of worrying about missed connections and everyone benefits

Jferb · 18-02-2008, 13:49

Thanks for that Mark. Yeah, the sooner our tin-cans are replaced by the new IC railcars, the better. Assuming the brakes on them are more reliable!

I understand the logical argument about not delaying the Cork train too long. I guess part of my annoyance stems from the fact that back in the 'bad old days', there was a direct service from Tralee to Dublin at 13:55. Then, as a direct result of introduction of the new hourly service from Cork to Dublin, the direct services from Tralee to Dublin were halved from 2 to a mere 1 direct train each way per day! The only direct route in the country where the service is going backwards!!

So you can forgive my displeasure at turning up in Mallow to find no train...

Mark Gleeson · 18-02-2008, 14:20

But you now have a train every 2 hours to Dublin, while still having the peak direct services, its a trade off the greater range of trains has made getting the train a lot more attractive. There are now 8 trains a day Dublin Tralee in the past it was only 4, incidentally the direct trains are slower than the connecting ones by 2 minutes!

We don't like late trains, but we equally know that sometimes holding a connection may lead to absolute chaos elsewhere so its not held leading to the dispair of those who needed the connection.

The punctuality issue will resolve a heap of problems, the general lack of urgency on the ground is the problem

ACustomer · 18-02-2008, 14:25

Jferb: was your experience at a missed connection just an exceptionally unlucky one, or are the DMUs used on the Kerry services generally unreliable?

While you mention that direct services are reduced to one a day, there are 8 other departures from Tralee daily which give Dublin conections at Mallow. This is a frequency much improved on anything seen before.

Referring to the trains as "tin cans" does not improve the credibility of your complaint - at least in my book.

15-02-2008, 16:18	#1
Jferb Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 65	Apartheid alive and well on the Kerry line.. I took the 13:15 from Tralee to Dublin (change at Mallow) today 2 weeks ago (it's a service I use regularly on different days of the week). Our tin can was 30 minutes late arriving in Mallow (apparently due to brake trouble) and low-and-behold, the connecting train from Cork had left without us! God forbid that the Cork train would be delayed by 20 minutes (we should arrive in Mallow 10 minutes before the Cork train), so instead it was allowed depart on time, and we were subjected to an additional, unnecessary 40 minute delay. So, an hour later than timetabled, onto the next Cork train! And as if that would be the end of it too! That train stuttered into Heuston an additional 35 minutes late (without explanation!). So instead of arriving in Heuston at 17:15, we ended up arriving at nearly 18:50!! So, my question is, is there an official IE policy regarding timetabled connections and what happens if one of the connecting trains runs late? I've been late arriving in Mallow many a time before, but never had the experience of the connecting train leaving without us! I think it's grossly unfair that we should be further inconvenienced for the benefit of not disrupting Cork passengers. To be fair, I will mention 2 redeeming facts on IE's behalf! Firstly, they were quick to hand out refund forms to everyone. In the past, I've had to go hunting for them myself. Secondly, everyone was offered free refreshments in the cafe in Mallow Station.. Last edited by Jferb : 15-02-2008 at 16:21.

16-02-2008, 15:52	#3
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The question here really, is how long do you hold the Cork train for? 5, 10, 15 minutes when do you stop? Of course if the Tralee train was still broken at the time the Cork train arrived in Mallow, there was no idea when it might arrive Had the Tralee train been under 20 minutes late the connection would almost certainly been held, resulting in a 10 minute delay to the Cork train If you hold the Cork train for more than 15 minutes you cause a massive ripple effect the whole way to Heuston resulting in delays to multiple trains leaving potentially many thousands late, given the Cork train was the 14:30 Cork Dublin this is especially true since it works the 18:00 back to Cork, every evening train out of Heuston would have been delayed if that leaves late The sad fact there is a cold logical machine which makes the decision, whichever choice results in the least delay which on average is the best for all passengers The root issue here is the fact the train broke down, addressing that will pay much greater dividends, we don't want to reach the point where there is need to know what the connection policy is since the trains are always ontime You are entitled to 50% refund on the journey, getting further delayed en route is plain unfortunate __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 16-02-2008 at 16:05.

18-02-2008, 09:24	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Information has arrived this morning, the Cork train will be held for not more than 10 minutes, which matches my original post As I have said, the issue at hand is poor punctuality, fix that instead of worrying about missed connections and everyone benefits __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

18-02-2008, 14:20	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	But you now have a train every 2 hours to Dublin, while still having the peak direct services, its a trade off the greater range of trains has made getting the train a lot more attractive. There are now 8 trains a day Dublin Tralee in the past it was only 4, incidentally the direct trains are slower than the connecting ones by 2 minutes! We don't like late trains, but we equally know that sometimes holding a connection may lead to absolute chaos elsewhere so its not held leading to the dispair of those who needed the connection. The punctuality issue will resolve a heap of problems, the general lack of urgency on the ground is the problem __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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16-02-2008, 15:24	#2
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	Well when you consider the number of people on the Cork-Dublin as against the number of Kerry line passengers, perhaps it is better not to delay the majority.

18-02-2008, 13:49	#5
Jferb Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 65	Thanks for that Mark. Yeah, the sooner our tin-cans are replaced by the new IC railcars, the better. Assuming the brakes on them are more reliable! I understand the logical argument about not delaying the Cork train too long. I guess part of my annoyance stems from the fact that back in the 'bad old days', there was a direct service from Tralee to Dublin at 13:55. Then, as a direct result of introduction of the new hourly service from Cork to Dublin, the direct services from Tralee to Dublin were halved from 2 to a mere 1 direct train each way per day! The only direct route in the country where the service is going backwards!! So you can forgive my displeasure at turning up in Mallow to find no train...

18-02-2008, 14:25	#7
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Jferb: was your experience at a missed connection just an exceptionally unlucky one, or are the DMUs used on the Kerry services generally unreliable? While you mention that direct services are reduced to one a day, there are 8 other departures from Tralee daily which give Dublin conections at Mallow. This is a frequency much improved on anything seen before. Referring to the trains as "tin cans" does not improve the credibility of your complaint - at least in my book.