Troubled times ahead on the Belfast line

[Mark Gleeson]

As if thing couldn't get any worse, due to new safety rules which came into force up North on Jan 1st 2008, there are troubled times ahead on the Belfast line

Two areas
1. All trains must have central door locking, the use of the elderly Mk2d Sligo set to Belfast as was done frequently in 2006 is now illegal.

2. All trains must have AWS and TPWS safety systems fitted, with the exception of the 6 enterprise locomotives IE have nothing else currently that satisfies the rules

If an Enterprise set fails, there is absolutely nothing in Dublin suitable to cross the border and this will remain the case so get ready for all kinds of fun switching trains in Dundalk if anything breaks down. Some of the new intercity railcars satisfy the rules but surprise surprise are not certified for NI yet

You have been warned, one wonders what wonderful excuses IE will invent to sell this inconvenience as an improvement

[Mark Hennessy]

Mark was this known in advance by Irish Rail?

If so, it once more beggers belief that no plans have been put in place for this, given the frequent failings on the service.

It's almost like this service is deliberately being run down.

[Mark Gleeson]

Legislation was passed 26th January 2007, had been on the cards for several years.

Only 6 enterprise locomotives are fitted, 3 in service, 1 spare Belfast, 1 Dublin leaves little to play with.

Put simply IE will stick everyone on a 29k ship them to Dundalk turf them out and swap with the next Dublin bound enterprise.

Like NIR's 6 C3K railcars IE have 6 22k railcars fitted for cross border operation but the train hasn't got authorisation to run in NI yet, nor has there been any movement to get the red tape done

[packetswitch]

Went to Belfast last weekend. Took the bus, €22 return, under 2.5 hours each way. Depart Busáras, via the tunnel and the airport, and ends up at the Europa bus station (dead handy for most of Belfast). Every hour (24 hours a day, 7 days a week).

Except for when

a) someone else is paying (even with a student discount, the train is dearer), or
b) I really need to use a laptop,

I'm quite likely to get the bus on this route in the future. I'd never dream of getting a bus to Cork unless I was really stuck, because the train is much more reliable and much quicker. But this is different. And the thought of upcoming trouble, as highlighted by Mark, hardly encourages me to opt to pay more for a similarly timed train service where they're going to mess me around with multiple trainsets...

Am I the only one thinking this way?

[ThomasJ]

Am I the only one thinking this way?

No Packetswitch you're not, if I was going to Belfast I'd be taking the bus and i'm sure alot of others would be thinking the same. Unfortunately in the road vs rail debate where record amounts of money has been put into belfast and wexford roads where it is nearly faster by roda the railways will always come second.

[Mark Gleeson]

If you don't need a table the bus is really the only way to go

[Mark Gleeson]

Its been seriously messy on the Belfast line last few days, numerous failures

It appears that both Irish Rail and Northern Ireland Railways have both breached section 3.1 of the The Railway Safety Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2007. A 29k made it to Belfast and back. IE shouldn't have sent it up and NIR shouldn't have let it onto the there track

[Mark Hennessy]

Are NIR answerable to any statuatory rail safety body in the UK?

[packetswitch]

The legal situation in NI is very strange - the million and one Acts in relation to the 'British' railway system don't apply and thus some of the 19th century stuff is still on the books. (Thankfully of course this means that the dafter bits of the 1990s 'experiment' on her majesty's mainland never came across the water). The ORR and the rest of the alphabet soup in London have no jurisdiction in NI that I know of...

At present the situation is a bunch of regulations mentioned by Mark, enacted pursuant to older H&S legislation as extended by a Northern Irish Act, the Railway Safety Act (from the first-attempt assembly, 2002); it's the responsibility of the Dept. of Regional Development. Because of the current political situation the trend is to move from quango to department (rather than the position in this state which is the other direction) but it's all the civil servants anyway and the minister just smiles and signs. in the international tradition

[CSL]

Is there not nasty penalties for the 'no-tpws' breach ?


of course you could designate the line 'heritage' for the duration

jaysus the ATOCs must be looking over and going ''bleeding paddys what do you expect"

[packetswitch]

They can hardly talk after last week's mess. I was in Coventry and the rants by the locals about how Network Rail made a complete cock-up of engineering work were quite spectacular. Oh, the humility of it all.

[Mark Gleeson]

The issue here is two fold

1. Irish Rail have left themselves in a very tricky position by not fitting more of their fleet with TPWS equipment, its off the shelf stuff

2. NIR where not on the ball, and didn't cop IE sneaking a train through

Penalties are severe

There has been numerous breakdowns and delays over the last 3 days, numerous replacement trains to the point of several of NIR's own trains spent the night in Dublin

The quickest solution would be to train IE drivers to drive NIR's C3K trains. It has become the case in recent days a NIR driver drives to Dublin and has to leave the train overnight in Dublin since IE haven't got staff trained to drive it back

[CSL]

Ah for ffs can they not stick the NIR GMs on the front of Mk3 rakes [ or some other intelligent move ] or are we just getting a bit too ott here ?

[Mark Gleeson]

NIR has a total of 1 serviceable locomotive, already visited Dublin several times standing in for enterprise

IE staff can't operate the NIR coaches north of the border since they are not trained on UK central door locking which is a legal requirement. NIR staff can't operate any IE coaches anywhere, so the fun begins

You can't make this up its a total farce. The entire point of the enterprise was a single common train which IE and NIR staff could drive, in fact you could have a NIR driver and IE guard it avoided all the chaos we have seen in recent days

[CSL]

The press will cop this soon

[Colm Moore]

Is it possible they got an exemption?

PQ? PR?

[Mark Gleeson]

That would make IE the only operator ever to get a TPWS one

Even steam engines now need AWS/TPWS and the blackbox, all 29k, 201 class and the silver 071 class have blackboxes

[CSL]

Haud on a moment.

So we have 6 201s with TPWS and AWS; and the DD sets have central door locking ?

Are the DD sets failing again or what ?

so all we need is a stand-in if a DD+TPWS 201 fails , is that correct ?

[Mark Gleeson]

Yes but they isn't any suitable stand in on the Dublin side

The reason the failures have increased is for over 3 years IE rotated the Enterprise locomotives around to avoid them working more than 3 days or so on Enterprise in a row, that reduced failures by a factor or 4

There was a pool of 23 locomotives to choose from, that pool is now only 6

[Derek Wheeler]

Well the 13.20 ex Dublin failed before departure today (brakes) and was replaced by a 29000. It departed at 14.20. No refund forms handed out and they charged for tea and coffee.

I wonder what happened in Dundalk?