letters on chivalry in paper

[ThomasJ]

In the letters section of one of this mornings freebie papers comment was made to the fact that a woman on cruches with a plaster cast on her foot was standing on a RUSH hour DART and the only person to offer her a seat was an elderly lady.

I have been standing on a DART/commuter train a couple of times and an elderly man/woman/even couple would be standing beside me in crushloads. they may have said no but the fact that no came up and asked them was not a good thing. its as if those stickers that ask passengers to give up a seat for an elderly/disabled person is not worth the paper its on. if people are not going to bother why bother to stick up those stickers.

its the same with buses i still happens but not as much as it used to. iwas actually on a bus (standing) where an elderly woman was standing and the bus came to a halt and she went forward and hit her head off a sideboard. she got a seat then.

What do you think? are people beginning to think less and less of people that need seats more?

[undo]

I think it's very much a cultural thing. See, I am from Poland but grew up in Germany. Whenever I am in Poland, *everybody* around me on a tram or bus will offer their seat to an elderly person. Naturally, so do I. When I am back in Germany, however, it would feel really awkward to be the one guy offering his seat to an older person. It's simply not something people do. (I know that's bad alright, but the peer pressure if you want to call it that makes me do the same as everyone else.)

I guess it's similar in Ireland: It's just not in the culture. And it will take a lot of time to become habitual for young people.

[ACustomer]

Undo: giving seats to the elderly and ladies (and not just elderly ladies!) was once part of our culture: that's why these comments were made in the first place. Ireland has become brash and ill-mannered - see remarks recently by the German ambassador.

What may have helped to kill off giving up one's seat was the attitude of 1970s vintage feminists ("Don't patronise me"). I hope that Polish gallantry will conunter this nastiness.

[Derek Wheeler]

IEs promotion of this particular act of kindness is abysmal. A mere sticker is not enough. P11 drew up the bones of a campaign, but initial reaction from IE was cool. But we are rolling it out again.

Ideally it should be poster, radio and TV driven. Thats what changes a culture.

[James Shields]

Perhaps we should be leading by example. I will happily give my seat up when an elderly or obviously pregnant person gets on, but perhaps I should be making a point of not sitting when other people are standing.

I think it looks bad when CIE staff (from any of their companies) in uniform sit on a crowded train and leave others standing. They may be perfectly entitled to a seat, but choosing not to take it would send a powerful that they as individuals as was as a company put the customer first.

If P11 launch a "give up your seat" campaign, it should certainly start from committee members (and any other members who wish to join us) giving up our seats.

Please note that this is just my opinion, and I have not discussed this with any other committee member.

[Derek Wheeler]

Cracking idea James.

[Mark Gleeson]

As previous posters have pointed out the very act of trying to give up your seat can be a frustrating experience.

I've sat on the floor for 2 hours after giving up my seat in the past and I don't annoy the person in my reserved seat if they are deserving.

Maybe we should start taping the shoulder of senior IE managers taking seats while others stand, yes we have all your mug shots

[losexpectation]

I hate these people who write these letters if your that desperate for seat ask! otherwise shut up, I call them rudeness nazis, who end up being more hostile then the people who didn't do what they had no idea they were doing.

[CSL]

That's quality trolling there... I'm impressed

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by losexpectation

I hate these people who write these letters if your that desperate for seat ask! otherwise shut up, I call them rudeness nazis, who end up being more hostile then the people who didn't do what they had no idea they were doing.

Hmmm, you're saying it is difficult for a young person to realize it is polite to offer their seat to an elderly / disabled person? You sound charming.

[CSL]

DON'T FEED THE TROLL !

[ThomasJ]

It might be an idea to look at if it is atall possible to translate these messages into different languages. Ireland is becoming more of a multicultural and multinational country. Companies are beginning to cater more for other nationalities such as Poles. Even with the amount of tourists from lets say, Spain use the DART and trains on a daily basis. Just an idea.

[Derek Wheeler]

Ive been following this thread and all I'll say is this.

This particular issue has been discussed by the membership in the members section and by the committee.

Membership discussion here http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1077

For the benefit of non members, below is a simple design idea we prepared over a year ago,based on an idea from Louise, when she was a committee member. I still think its probably one of the most high profile campaigns we could run. The plan was to prepare a more polished submission, submit it to IE and issue it to the media. The Gerry Ryan show talks about this issue at least 3 times a year.

[Derek Wheeler]

You'll note from the simple designs that we had hoped that IE would cooperate on the initiative with us. That is still an option.

Heres another version.

[undo]

Why not change that text to "if you are pregnant or feeling week" and then include in the picture both pregnant and old people? When asking people to give up seats to those who need them more, it is good to point out the different groups this applies to.

[Derek Wheeler]

Louise also tackled other members of society. Obviously these are just rough ideas and designs. Some great feedback was received from members. The concensus was for one general message, but I'd be interested in hearing what people think about specific messages as part of an over all campaign.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by undo

Why not change that text to "if you are pregnant or feeling week" and then include in the picture both pregnant and old people? When asking people to give up seats to those who need them more, it is good to point out the different groups this applies to.

A great idea. Ties in with the concensus that was felt before. Overall we have to move away from tatty little signs and huge campaigns about fare evasion and start to concentrate on customer driven issues. That is the area that IE fall down on. Remember that this kind of idea can be extended to refund forms for late trains and in fact any issue from the customer charter. What Im trying to generate here is a case of what is passenger driven as opposed to bye law driven. Rail users ireland is meant to be about that. And the sooner the better.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

Louise also tackled other members of society. Obviously these are just rough ideas and designs. Some great feedback was received from members. The concensus was for one general message, but I'd be interested in hearing what people think about specific messages as part of an over all campaign.

Attachment 628

a very effective image and would drive the message across i think. looks good!! best of luck!!

This particular issue has been discussed by the membership in the members section and by the committee.

Membership discussion here http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1077

reminds me that i need to get the finger out and become a member!

[ThomasJ]

It might be an idea to look at if it is atall possible to translate these messages into different languages. Ireland is becoming more of a multicultural and multinational country. Companies are beginning to cater more for other nationalities such as Poles. Even with the amount of tourists from lets say, Spain use the DART and trains on a daily basis. Just an idea.

[Derek Wheeler]

Good thinking. Noted.