general trend in discourtesy

James Shields · 21-07-2006, 02:04

There was a time when no gentleman would leave a lady standing. Personally I'm glad that time has passed, not because it would mean I'd never get a seat, but because by treating women as frail and weak, we devalue everyone.

I find it frustrating when I see someone who clearly needs a seat left standing, but I find the "young people of today" attitude equally offensive. I have often found my self in the "is she or isn't she?" dilema, and I'm not sure what you should do in that situation.

To a certain extent, I think that if you wait around expecting someone to offer you a seat, you're at least 50% to blame. Is it fair to expect people to know that you need one? Most commuters aren't actually psychic, I'm afraid. I will happily offer my seat to someone who needs, but I tend to spend much of the journey engrossed in my own activities (I typed 600 words on the train this morning, despite standing for half the journey), so is it my responsibility to notice you?

It hasn't happened to me, but I've heard of people who've offered their seat and been given out for assuming the person wasn't able to stand. Is it any wonder people are reluctant to offer their seat?

If you see someone, and they look like they need a seat, politely offer it.

If someone offers you a seat and you feel you need it, politely accept.

If someone offers you a seat and you don't feel you need it, politely decline.

If you are standing, and you feel you need a seat for any reason, politely ask someone if you may have theirs. I know two people who take this approach, and they have yet to be refused.

I'm still thinking about how best to handle this, but if you are standing, and you see someone who looks like they need to sit, the best thing might be to politely ask them if they need to sit down. Someone ought to get the hint at that point, but if they don't, ask on their behalf.

Graham · 21-07-2006, 21:20

Yep - a good rule of thumb lostcarpark. I have yet to see a person that asks for a seat on behalf of someone else be declined, and it's good that many people aren't afraid to do this - generally for elderly people who don't like causing a fuss but are clearly in discomfort.

It is a very fair point to make though that men shouldn't always have to offer a seat simply on a practical basis - we'd never get to sit down otherwise!
It is especially difficult being a young male though - you always get, if not dirty, then at least blank looks from the odd person, generally non-commuters too. But what can you do? - if I could get a discounted 'male standing ticket' I'd actively consider it!

People are also increasingly good at seat rotation - asking each other where they are getting off and adjusting positions accordingly: a good idea.
Not all is bad. If anything, it seems buses are the real problem in this country - a lot of reports of needy people being left standing on that mode.
People just seem to wrap themselves up in the sheltered cocoon that coach seating enables, and ignore everyone else. Rail is more social, and forces one to be civil - well, most people anyway.

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21-07-2006, 02:04	#1
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	There was a time when no gentleman would leave a lady standing. Personally I'm glad that time has passed, not because it would mean I'd never get a seat, but because by treating women as frail and weak, we devalue everyone. I find it frustrating when I see someone who clearly needs a seat left standing, but I find the "young people of today" attitude equally offensive. I have often found my self in the "is she or isn't she?" dilema, and I'm not sure what you should do in that situation. To a certain extent, I think that if you wait around expecting someone to offer you a seat, you're at least 50% to blame. Is it fair to expect people to know that you need one? Most commuters aren't actually psychic, I'm afraid. I will happily offer my seat to someone who needs, but I tend to spend much of the journey engrossed in my own activities (I typed 600 words on the train this morning, despite standing for half the journey), so is it my responsibility to notice you? It hasn't happened to me, but I've heard of people who've offered their seat and been given out for assuming the person wasn't able to stand. Is it any wonder people are reluctant to offer their seat? If you see someone, and they look like they need a seat, politely offer it. If someone offers you a seat and you feel you need it, politely accept. If someone offers you a seat and you don't feel you need it, politely decline. If you are standing, and you feel you need a seat for any reason, politely ask someone if you may have theirs. I know two people who take this approach, and they have yet to be refused. I'm still thinking about how best to handle this, but if you are standing, and you see someone who looks like they need to sit, the best thing might be to politely ask them if they need to sit down. Someone ought to get the hint at that point, but if they don't, ask on their behalf.

21-07-2006, 21:20	#2
Graham New to the board Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: crawling behind a DART Posts: 25	Yep - a good rule of thumb lostcarpark. I have yet to see a person that asks for a seat on behalf of someone else be declined, and it's good that many people aren't afraid to do this - generally for elderly people who don't like causing a fuss but are clearly in discomfort. It is a very fair point to make though that men shouldn't always have to offer a seat simply on a practical basis - we'd never get to sit down otherwise! It is especially difficult being a young male though - you always get, if not dirty, then at least blank looks from the odd person, generally non-commuters too. But what can you do? - if I could get a discounted 'male standing ticket' I'd actively consider it! People are also increasingly good at seat rotation - asking each other where they are getting off and adjusting positions accordingly: a good idea. Not all is bad. If anything, it seems buses are the real problem in this country - a lot of reports of needy people being left standing on that mode. People just seem to wrap themselves up in the sheltered cocoon that coach seating enables, and ignore everyone else. Rail is more social, and forces one to be civil - well, most people anyway.