The Cork Dublin Express Train has entered service

Graham · 02-07-2006, 20:30

I'll try and get some during the week.

Thank you very much for all of that MrX, and lostcarpark – most enlightening

Regarding the CDE interior, I shall take your word for it so until I have an opportunity to use it! Certainly on closer inspection the seating looks very comfortable (if a bit frumpy in design), and the plastic fittings are very stylishly moulded – the diffused lighting also quite elegant. What’s the lighting like at seat level though, given there’s no over-seat or over-window lighting?

I generally tend to prefer darker interiors, but that’s just a personal thing, probably formed by exposure to the 2900s! Suppose I have an affinity with it from morning commuting – the Enterprise has got a dark cabin interior perfectly suited to early-morning sleeping, as everyone who uses it knows! And the carpet everywhere generats a more muted, softer experience. But yes the Enterprise can feel very depressing, though bizarrely more on a sunny day than a dull one! In overcast or wet/cold conditions it’s nice to get into the cosy dark Enterprise with its warm central tungsten lighting, while it’s more depressing on a sunny day to have to board into gloom.

However the CDE more than makes up for the slightly harder interior with good design; the bright interior is well served with crisp, clean lines – lines the Enterprise patches over with shadows

. Those light blue curtains will get manky rather quickly though won’t they? Does the CDE have carpet up to the windows by the way?

The Heathrow Express is simply stunning – wow! Is that a first class carriage, or standard? An excellent firm judging by their site. More of this please.
By the way, how is the CDE first class marketed? – plain ‘first class’ or the more PC ‘First Plus’?

Thanks for the DMU information – given Rotem’s site it would appear that these intercitys are the highest spec DMUs they’ve yet produced, and their most challenging order with dining cars etc too.
So if DMUs, does this mean dreaded underslung engines for our new Intercity fleet? Have engine developments moved on since they lumped us with the 2900s? It would be a disaster if we got anything near what our current DMUs force on patrons, and for the image of rail travel in Ireland. Are DMUs being acquired over push-pulls for flexibility and reliability? – and they now standard stock in Europe for use on such routes?

I see the Indo reported that the final 30 in 2007-8 will be used in the GDA which is good to see, hopefully to offer some relief from the dominance of 2900s in this area – otherwise will the new DMUs be used country-wide to replace the MK II? Will they merely replace them in number or will there be a surplus with this Rotem order?

Thanks! (did a search, but not much info

)

MrX · 02-07-2006, 22:45

Graham,

The CDE interior is pretty much Heathrow Express style but more geared towards intercity than a short hop.

The "First Class" service on the Cork line has been branded CityGold for some years. The Cork MK3 fleet has pretty plush and well designed coaches for CityGold service with similar levels of service to that found on the Enterprise First Plus. The CityGold brand has been retained on the new fleet. The CityGold CDE coaches are extremely plush and very visually impressive inside.

The light levels are excellent through the train, not too bright, not too dark.

Don't forget the Cork line has had IE's best stock on it since the 1980s, the Cork MK3s are excellent coaches and the CityGold coaches are pretty high spec. So the CDE has a lot to live up to!

The Intercity DMUs are due to replace *EVERYTHING* other than the CDE and the Enterprise i.e. the MK2s, the Cravens, and thankfully 29000s on Intercity duties.

The future of the MK3 fleet remains unclear, some may be used to bolster the Enteprise. Don't forget, these are still excellent coaches and are far better technical spec than the enterprise i.e. they actually do operate at 100mph (design speed, like the CDE is 125mph) and overall, they're in decent condntion. The IE fleet of MK3s being quite a bit younger than its British cousins, it dates from 1984-1988.

The existing Cork CityGold sets would really show Enterprise customers what a train should be like! It'd be nice to see them cosmetically refurbished.

The existing MK3 and new CDE business class service :

Gives you an overview of the services on the MK3 citygold sets:
http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/our_services/citygold.asp
Including a 3D coach interior view.

Mark Gleeson · 02-07-2006, 23:13

Its not a fair comparison to compare a 2900 and the new CDE trainsets, they are two very different trains for very different jobs, one is a high density low speed commuter train the other is a long distance high speed

The CDE coaches and 2900 units have a family connection the NI C3K which shares some of its interior design with the new Cork coaches, there is a 460 hp engine under the floor and its quiet and it rides very very well.

French design trains seem to be dark, bright and airy is the way and if you have a lighting failure we will really appreciate a bright interior

The carpet remains on the floor the walls are plastic. The luggage racks are large and have tinted glass in them, the lighting is good.

You cant really knock it till you have tried it

MrX · 02-07-2006, 23:30

Not only that, the CDE and 29000s might share the same manufactuer but they don't share a design team.

The CDE is a Design Triangle product, like the Heathrow Express.

The 29000s were styled and designed by Dolmen in Dublin.
Same people who did the CityGold coaches.

The 29000s are an excellent design in my opinion. the NIR C3Ks would be way over the top for commuter services and would have serious maintenence and cleaning issues.

The key problem with the 29000s is that IE are trying to pass them off as new intercity services in Sligo... it's utter nonsense. The whole process has simply given the whole concept of DMUs a bad name in Ireland.

To get back on topic though:

The CDE interior is, in my opinion, spot on for the Irish climate and landscape! I've travelled on it so far on a very dull day and on a very bright day and it was equally pleasant on both trips. The lights are diffused quite well and you can sleep.

In general, French trains are pretty dull onboard though. Many TGVs are pretty disappointing on board..

e.g.

Graham · 02-07-2006, 23:41

Frump Central

Can't disagree with you there!

Where other than poor Sligo have the 2900s been inflicted on unsuspecting Intercityers??

CAF's 2900 page:

http://www.caf.net/ingles/productos/...d=451&sec=desc

sean · 03-07-2006, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Frump Central

Can't disagree with you there!

Where other than poor Sligo have the 2900s been inflicted on unsuspecting Intercityers??

1: Rosslare. Was actually a big improvement over the 2700s.
2: Sunday services to Galway and Limerick.
3: Enterprise cover ... which I'm sure you're well aware of.

Maynooth_Line · 03-07-2006, 10:36

It's usually 2800's on the Rosslare route, though the 29000's do make the occasional appearance.

Graham · 02-07-2006, 23:21

Not knocking at all Mark - only questioning, not having used one yet.
And no comparision was made with the 2900!

CityGold is of course the first class MrX - doh!
And there was Eddie Hobbs on it only this time last year too

These were all refitted around 1993 or 1994 weren't they?
Excellently fitted, thanks for the pics, which combined with the quality of Mk3 makes for one hell of a service alright. Most certainly they ought to be refurbished - with a new livery and interior fit-out they'd be good to go for another 20 years. Wonderfully comfortable trains - only the windows are uncommonly high are they not? They only real drawback, combined with a lack of window-based aircon as I recall...

As for the new Intercitys, I really do hope the engine problems associated with DMUs up till now have been resolved for this massive order.

02-07-2006, 22:45	#2
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Graham, The CDE interior is pretty much Heathrow Express style but more geared towards intercity than a short hop. The "First Class" service on the Cork line has been branded CityGold for some years. The Cork MK3 fleet has pretty plush and well designed coaches for CityGold service with similar levels of service to that found on the Enterprise First Plus. The CityGold brand has been retained on the new fleet. The CityGold CDE coaches are extremely plush and very visually impressive inside. The light levels are excellent through the train, not too bright, not too dark. Don't forget the Cork line has had IE's best stock on it since the 1980s, the Cork MK3s are excellent coaches and the CityGold coaches are pretty high spec. So the CDE has a lot to live up to! The Intercity DMUs are due to replace EVERYTHING other than the CDE and the Enterprise i.e. the MK2s, the Cravens, and thankfully 29000s on Intercity duties. The future of the MK3 fleet remains unclear, some may be used to bolster the Enteprise. Don't forget, these are still excellent coaches and are far better technical spec than the enterprise i.e. they actually do operate at 100mph (design speed, like the CDE is 125mph) and overall, they're in decent condntion. The IE fleet of MK3s being quite a bit younger than its British cousins, it dates from 1984-1988. The existing Cork CityGold sets would really show Enterprise customers what a train should be like! It'd be nice to see them cosmetically refurbished. The existing MK3 and new CDE business class service : Gives you an overview of the services on the MK3 citygold sets: http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/our_services/citygold.asp Including a 3D coach interior view. Last edited by MrX : 02-07-2006 at 22:56.

02-07-2006, 23:30	#4
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Not only that, the CDE and 29000s might share the same manufactuer but they don't share a design team. The CDE is a Design Triangle product, like the Heathrow Express. The 29000s were styled and designed by Dolmen in Dublin. Same people who did the CityGold coaches. The 29000s are an excellent design in my opinion. the NIR C3Ks would be way over the top for commuter services and would have serious maintenence and cleaning issues. The key problem with the 29000s is that IE are trying to pass them off as new intercity services in Sligo... it's utter nonsense. The whole process has simply given the whole concept of DMUs a bad name in Ireland. To get back on topic though: The CDE interior is, in my opinion, spot on for the Irish climate and landscape! I've travelled on it so far on a very dull day and on a very bright day and it was equally pleasant on both trips. The lights are diffused quite well and you can sleep. In general, French trains are pretty dull onboard though. Many TGVs are pretty disappointing on board.. e.g. Last edited by MrX : 02-07-2006 at 23:40.

02-07-2006, 23:21	#8
Graham New to the board Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: crawling behind a DART Posts: 25	Not knocking at all Mark - only questioning, not having used one yet. And no comparision was made with the 2900! CityGold is of course the first class MrX - doh! And there was Eddie Hobbs on it only this time last year too These were all refitted around 1993 or 1994 weren't they? Excellently fitted, thanks for the pics, which combined with the quality of Mk3 makes for one hell of a service alright. Most certainly they ought to be refurbished - with a new livery and interior fit-out they'd be good to go for another 20 years. Wonderfully comfortable trains - only the windows are uncommonly high are they not? They only real drawback, combined with a lack of window-based aircon as I recall... As for the new Intercitys, I really do hope the engine problems associated with DMUs up till now have been resolved for this massive order. Last edited by Graham : 02-07-2006 at 23:23.

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02-07-2006, 20:30	#1
Graham New to the board Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: crawling behind a DART Posts: 25	I'll try and get some during the week. Thank you very much for all of that MrX, and lostcarpark – most enlightening Regarding the CDE interior, I shall take your word for it so until I have an opportunity to use it! Certainly on closer inspection the seating looks very comfortable (if a bit frumpy in design), and the plastic fittings are very stylishly moulded – the diffused lighting also quite elegant. What’s the lighting like at seat level though, given there’s no over-seat or over-window lighting? I generally tend to prefer darker interiors, but that’s just a personal thing, probably formed by exposure to the 2900s! Suppose I have an affinity with it from morning commuting – the Enterprise has got a dark cabin interior perfectly suited to early-morning sleeping, as everyone who uses it knows! And the carpet everywhere generats a more muted, softer experience. But yes the Enterprise can feel very depressing, though bizarrely more on a sunny day than a dull one! In overcast or wet/cold conditions it’s nice to get into the cosy dark Enterprise with its warm central tungsten lighting, while it’s more depressing on a sunny day to have to board into gloom. However the CDE more than makes up for the slightly harder interior with good design; the bright interior is well served with crisp, clean lines – lines the Enterprise patches over with shadows . Those light blue curtains will get manky rather quickly though won’t they? Does the CDE have carpet up to the windows by the way? The Heathrow Express is simply stunning – wow! Is that a first class carriage, or standard? An excellent firm judging by their site. More of this please. By the way, how is the CDE first class marketed? – plain ‘first class’ or the more PC ‘First Plus’? Thanks for the DMU information – given Rotem’s site it would appear that these intercitys are the highest spec DMUs they’ve yet produced, and their most challenging order with dining cars etc too. So if DMUs, does this mean dreaded underslung engines for our new Intercity fleet? Have engine developments moved on since they lumped us with the 2900s? It would be a disaster if we got anything near what our current DMUs force on patrons, and for the image of rail travel in Ireland. Are DMUs being acquired over push-pulls for flexibility and reliability? – and they now standard stock in Europe for use on such routes? I see the Indo reported that the final 30 in 2007-8 will be used in the GDA which is good to see, hopefully to offer some relief from the dominance of 2900s in this area – otherwise will the new DMUs be used country-wide to replace the MK II? Will they merely replace them in number or will there be a surplus with this Rotem order? Thanks! (did a search, but not much info )

02-07-2006, 23:13	#3
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its not a fair comparison to compare a 2900 and the new CDE trainsets, they are two very different trains for very different jobs, one is a high density low speed commuter train the other is a long distance high speed The CDE coaches and 2900 units have a family connection the NI C3K which shares some of its interior design with the new Cork coaches, there is a 460 hp engine under the floor and its quiet and it rides very very well. French design trains seem to be dark, bright and airy is the way and if you have a lighting failure we will really appreciate a bright interior The carpet remains on the floor the walls are plastic. The luggage racks are large and have tinted glass in them, the lighting is good. You cant really knock it till you have tried it

02-07-2006, 23:41	#5
Graham New to the board Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: crawling behind a DART Posts: 25	Frump Central Can't disagree with you there! Where other than poor Sligo have the 2900s been inflicted on unsuspecting Intercityers?? CAF's 2900 page: http://www.caf.net/ingles/productos/...d=451&sec=desc

03-07-2006, 10:36	#7
Maynooth_Line Regular Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 54	It's usually 2800's on the Rosslare route, though the 29000's do make the occasional appearance.