Time to ban steam trains?

Mark Gleeson · 09-09-2019, 06:38

Another failure yesterday

2 in fact,
Hot box trip in Kerry Sunday morning
Total failure at Sallins during the evening Sunday intercity peak, delays of up to 100 minutes.

Same locomotive sat down in Gorey on July 7th

Jamie2k9 · 09-09-2019, 14:47

I think a ban is very harsh. I believe all bar 1 service were under 60 late and by IE standards very quick.

If they managed to rescue an IV or even ICR as quick it would be good. I get its more complicated.

Single line not used, considering number of departures was low most services would probably been less than 30m if in operation.

Mark Gleeson · 09-09-2019, 19:24

That risk is far too high and the performance in recent years shows there is evidence to back the case.

It is completely unfair on passenger paying full fare to be delayed, it also leaves Irish Rail open to significant refund/compensation to delayed passengers.

The Mk4 fleet even at its worst in the early days was 10,000km per 5 minute tech failure, the Japanese DART fleet is at 130,000km, 22k is somewhere upwards of 60,000km

RPSI is down in the hundred's of km

Total number of failures I've had personally account to 1 MK2d (gen van, actually cooled down inside with the AC off!), 1 Mk3 (battery, bussed to destination), 1 Mk4 (MU cable, some physical encouragement was used), 2 DART (brakes) in 30+ years, only two of those required assistance to get moving again. I have a 50% success rate of seeing a steam engine haul a train with the RPSI.

Jamie2k9 · 10-09-2019, 07:18

They are losing plenty giving reservation refunds daily, I don't think a handful of payments for this will break the bank.

I do think they should perhaps give more scheduling consideration to scheduling of the light engine movements particularly on busy section PLaois-Heuston.

James Shields · 10-09-2019, 10:24

I would be opposed to a complete ban on Steam trains running on our mainlines. Firstly, they are a tourist attraction, and secondly they bring joy to many people. Every steam train excursion delights the people taking part, both the passengers on the trip and the volunteers who make it happen, but also hundreds of people who see a steam locomotive crossing the countryside and feel a little happier for it.

Taking that away would be one more reason for people to feel negative about railways, and we don't need more reasons for people to be negative about rail.

I accept it does not bring joy to people delayed by a failed steam train. However, I think we should be looking at ways of reducing failures, and minimising the delay when they occur.

Eddie · 14-09-2019, 23:12

I've just been watching a couple of recorded programmes of "Scotland's Beautiful Railways" which featured a couple of famous old steam trains (including the Flying Scotsman) traversing the lines. What was clear is that significant investment had been made into the locos to keep them running and some of the staff seemed happy to work for nothing but the sheer enjoyment of being part of something historical.

It brought back happy memories of a week in the summer spent travelling to Skye via the Kyle of Lochalsh and back from Mallaig (on a SailRail ticket). Two "Jacobite" steam trains a day manage to travel between Fort William to Mallaig and back on a single track line which also has 4 ScotRail trains a day in each direction.

There must be a blueprint here for ensuring the steam trains and service trains can happily co-exist.

Btw, I can thoroughly recommend the trip.

09-09-2019, 06:38	#1
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Another failure yesterday 2 in fact, Hot box trip in Kerry Sunday morning Total failure at Sallins during the evening Sunday intercity peak, delays of up to 100 minutes. Same locomotive sat down in Gorey on July 7th __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

09-09-2019, 19:24	#3
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	That risk is far too high and the performance in recent years shows there is evidence to back the case. It is completely unfair on passenger paying full fare to be delayed, it also leaves Irish Rail open to significant refund/compensation to delayed passengers. The Mk4 fleet even at its worst in the early days was 10,000km per 5 minute tech failure, the Japanese DART fleet is at 130,000km, 22k is somewhere upwards of 60,000km RPSI is down in the hundred's of km Total number of failures I've had personally account to 1 MK2d (gen van, actually cooled down inside with the AC off!), 1 Mk3 (battery, bussed to destination), 1 Mk4 (MU cable, some physical encouragement was used), 2 DART (brakes) in 30+ years, only two of those required assistance to get moving again. I have a 50% success rate of seeing a steam engine haul a train with the RPSI. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

14-09-2019, 23:12	#6
Eddie Really Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 258	I've just been watching a couple of recorded programmes of "Scotland's Beautiful Railways" which featured a couple of famous old steam trains (including the Flying Scotsman) traversing the lines. What was clear is that significant investment had been made into the locos to keep them running and some of the staff seemed happy to work for nothing but the sheer enjoyment of being part of something historical. It brought back happy memories of a week in the summer spent travelling to Skye via the Kyle of Lochalsh and back from Mallaig (on a SailRail ticket). Two "Jacobite" steam trains a day manage to travel between Fort William to Mallaig and back on a single track line which also has 4 ScotRail trains a day in each direction. There must be a blueprint here for ensuring the steam trains and service trains can happily co-exist. Btw, I can thoroughly recommend the trip. Last edited by Eddie : 14-09-2019 at 23:20.

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09-09-2019, 14:47	#2
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	I think a ban is very harsh. I believe all bar 1 service were under 60 late and by IE standards very quick. If they managed to rescue an IV or even ICR as quick it would be good. I get its more complicated. Single line not used, considering number of departures was low most services would probably been less than 30m if in operation.

10-09-2019, 07:18	#4
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	They are losing plenty giving reservation refunds daily, I don't think a handful of payments for this will break the bank. I do think they should perhaps give more scheduling consideration to scheduling of the light engine movements particularly on busy section PLaois-Heuston.

10-09-2019, 10:24	#5
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	I would be opposed to a complete ban on Steam trains running on our mainlines. Firstly, they are a tourist attraction, and secondly they bring joy to many people. Every steam train excursion delights the people taking part, both the passengers on the trip and the volunteers who make it happen, but also hundreds of people who see a steam locomotive crossing the countryside and feel a little happier for it. Taking that away would be one more reason for people to feel negative about railways, and we don't need more reasons for people to be negative about rail. I accept it does not bring joy to people delayed by a failed steam train. However, I think we should be looking at ways of reducing failures, and minimising the delay when they occur.