Phoenix Park tunnel may reopen to passenger trains

[niallm]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29434757.html

Does Luas Broombridge mean that Phoenix Park tunnel trains could connect usefully with something prior to Connolly?

[Mark Gleeson]

No connection between the two sadly.

Its all well and good saying Connolly has capacity but it doesn't really even after the upgrade.

And the line did carry daily scheduled passenger services until 1981 when the through boat train stopped running.

[Colm Moore]

I understand there was a service 100 years ago, but it didn't work, due to the time penalty involved in going around the city.

Luas will cross the line here: http://binged.it/1azywWj which is slightly inaccessible / remote and would only really be useful if the Batchelors factor was redeveloped.

We'll have to see what the proposals are.

[Inniskeen]

The local service 100 years ago was between Kingsbridge and North Wall serving Glasnevin and Drumcondra. This was in addition to boat train services from the southern, midland and northern lines to the LNWR station at North Wall. Shades of Docklands although today's service is a lot busier than the earlier version !

[Jamie2k9]

This must be stopped as it does nothing and will have zero benefit. It won't be able to offer the frequency, flexibility or timing as the Luas as it will require more work for the passengers.

Currently we have, train to Heuston, Luas to Connolly, train to xxx
What we will have is train to Heuston, walk/bus to plt 10, train to Connolly and train to xxx.

The only answer to Dublin transport system is the Dart interconnector.

[Inniskeen]

I would imagine that there will be some through services from the southern line to Pearse or Grand Canal Dock - perhaps two trains an hour each way. The elimination of a mode change at Heuston should prove attractive as should direct services to Drumcondra.

While the proposal is modest it does take advantage of underused assets (KRP, Phoenix Park, post city centre re-signalling through Connolly, Tara Street and Pearse) and could be expanded by running some services off the southern line into the Docklands.

As it is a near zero cost proposal, it is well worth implementing and should generate a few thousand extra trips per day.

[Mark Gleeson]

It has to operate Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch to make any sense.

Connolly, Tara, Pearse, Grand Canal Dock are major gateways to the IFSC, Spencer Dock, TCD, South Quays/Silicon Dock etc so there is a good chance there is business

If all we are taking about is a train at most every 30 minutes, the capital cost to do this is about 1.5 million at most, all you need is a an extra cross over north of platform 10 and a matching signalling change.

[dowlingm]

I think the question is will there be any need for Docklands post 2015? I imagine Dunboyne commuters won't take it well if they continue to be fecked in there on weekdays with all new slots at Connolly filled by - among other things - Kildare trains. Also, is crooked Platform 10 going to be acceptable from an accessibility standpoint?

The most encouraging part of the article was that DASH2 actually has a finish date, but I'd rather see the 12 mil go to getting planning done for Maynooth DART.

[Inniskeen]

Unless they have lost all the information it is only a matter of dusting down the plans for Maynooth electrification as the project is already scope and designed. No real need to add another 12 million to the fortune already spent on plans.

Not sure that DART would be a huge addition to the Maynooth line due to likely journey time extensions and congestion.

[comcor]

Irish Rail says no

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/i...rk-604163.html

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by comcor

Irish Rail says no

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/i...rk-604163.html

With respect IE did not say no.

They said it was no substitute for DART Underground, which it isn't, and they said a decision has not been reached, which it hasn't.

Totally different from saying "no". Sloppy journalism.

[James Howard]

Given the low cost it seems a bit of a no-brainer to me. When the Broombridge Luas comes on-stream, this is likely to take quite a few passenger journeys away from Connolly if cost isn't a problem.

Certainly if you were heading for O'Connell street, the south city centre or further south, it would make a lot more sense to change off a Maynooth / M3 commuter train onto the Luas and head in that way. Given how slow Broombridge - Connolly is at present and the resulting walk up to the city centre, it would have to be fast to transfer to Luas.

It is just a pity that the layout doesn't facilitate transfers from Maynooth towards Kildare - that would take some traffic away from Connolly while not affecting the service level if passengers could transfer to Luas for town.

[Inniskeen]

Looks like the NTA are looking for some bang for their bucks. The "city centre" re-signalling is supposed to increase the capacity of the "loop line" between Connolly and Grand Canal Dock from 12 trains per hour per direction to 20 trains per hour per direction. NTA have done the sums and reckon there are 8 new paths per hour in each direction thus providing plenty of capacity for extra trains between Connolly and Grand Canal Dock.

While this proposal is not perfect it will utilise some of the massive spare capacity on the Cork line created by the KRP project as well as providing a new role for the the now little used Islandbridge to Glasnevin Junction route. Clearly conflicts will occur at Islandbridge Junction (with Heuston services), Glasnevin Junction (with Maynooth services) and at Connolly (with the Northern line). It will be interesting to see how well these conflicts are handled and the extent to which they restrict overall throughput.

Some signalling changes might prove useful at Glasnevin Junction to allow trains more closely approach the physical junction even if a clear path isn't immediately available.

[dowlingm]

Given that the lines parallel from Adamstown/Leixlip inward I'd rather see one or more outer orbital rapid bus routes interconnect the lines rather than take up capacity as far as the Glasnevin Jct vicinity and then try transferring people.

[joey]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/envir...ound-1.1499167

[ThomasJ]

Clarification on the Phoenix Park Tunnel Link included in the National Transport Authority’s Draft Integrated Implementation Plan 2013-2018
Having published a Draft Integrated Implementation Plan, the National Transport Authority is seeking submissions from all interested parties including public transport operators and authorities.
Regarding the article in the Irish Times published today 20th August, the Authority wishes to note that the Draft Implementation Plan clearly identifies that the opportunity for delivering the DART Underground is to be protected for the future. In current economic circumstances, however, this project could not proceed during the period of the Plan, given that the overall cost of the full DART Underground programme would exceed €4 billion, although incorporating a significant quotient of private financing.
The DART Underground programme consists not only of a tunnel from Inchicore to the Docklands but also of a series of important individual projects which would aggregate to produce a completely connected commuter rail network for Dublin. The Authority has set out in the Draft Implementation Plan that planning and design work will be progressed on the electrification and re-signalling of the rail line from Malahide to Balbriggan, and of the Maynooth Line. Both these projects form part of the overall Dart Underground programme.
The Phoenix Park Tunnel link can only come into operation when additional train paths become available between Connolly and Grand Canal Dock stations. Currently, one of the key constraints on the rail network is the limitations on train paths through the city centre section. A very significant investment programme is already underway and will continue throughout the period of the Plan to upgrade signalling and turn-back facilities to accommodate an additional 8 train paths per direction per hour (up from 12 at present to 20) in the critical city centre area. To date, in excess of €50m has been invested by the State in signalling systems in Dublin area with substantial further investment included for in the Government’s capital programme.
To gain as much benefit as possible from this signalling investment, new services patterns will be developed through Connolly station. Opening up the Phoenix Park Tunnel link provides one such opportunity to offer new and better services to commuters. The estimated cost of the appropriate Phoenix Park Tunnel capital works is in the order of €12m.
In summary, the Implementation Plan presents the Phoenix Park Tunnel link as an opportunity in the short term, at modest cost, to bring commuters from the west and south west to the city centre and the business district in the south of the city, availing of the very significant investment that the Government is making in rail signalling systems.

Nta responded to the Irish times article (a week old)