Proposals for extra train services in North Tipperary...

Traincustomer · 12-02-2012, 19:34

Obviously these additional services require extra money but one wonders is the IÉ to NTA application to operate them of a:

(i) mere request to operate additional trains nature
OR
(ii) request to operate additional trains including a request for funding of same nature

A request of type (ii) may not necessarily be the case; perhaps IÉ can somehow obtain the requisite money/ balance it against savings elsewhere.

A request of type (i) is highly likely to succeed , a request of type (ii) is likely to be a bit harder.

(labels (i) and (ii) assigned for convenience of discussion and no importance attaches to them otherwise)

Mark Gleeson · 12-02-2012, 20:02

I would imagine Irish Rail management are smart enough to be seeking extra cash in return for the service

Given the dire financial position (its seriously dire) it would be negligent to add extra cost onto the bottom line without additional support from the NTA.

Subsidy is down almost 50 million or more than 25% down over the last 5 years.

Kilocharlie · 12-02-2012, 20:48

Going back to the suggested 0820 arrival in Heuston. Not withstanding that 0820 is allocated to the 0600 from Waterford, this is actually quite a busy time on this route with arrivals at 0810 (Cork),0815(Kildare), 0820(Waterford), 0833(Portlaoise), 0838(Westport),[sometimes reversed], 0840(Limerick), 0845(Cork), 0855(Portlaoise)[overtaken by the previous 2], etc.

The apparent 13 min gap between the 0820 (Waterford) and 0833 (0720 ex Portlaoise) is just the difference between a non-stop and stopping service- they have only a 5 min, and often less, gap in Kildare.

The only place they could squeeze an extra arrival is between the 0720 ex Portlaoise (Kildare at 0746) and the 0515 ex Westport (Kildare at 0855) with an arrival around 0835 and delay the Westport a minute or two. But even that could have consequential delays to the Limerick and Cork services.

Jamie2k9 · 12-02-2012, 21:19

Quote:

Going back to the suggested 0820 arrival in Heuston. Not withstanding that 0820 is allocated to the 0600 from Waterford, this is actually quite a busy time on this route with arrivals at 0810 (Cork),0815(Kildare), 0820(Waterford), 0833(Portlaoise), 0838(Westport),[sometimes reversed], 0840(Limerick), 0845(Cork), 0855(Portlaoise)[overtaken by the previous 2], etc.

Platforms may also be an issue. 3 other arrivals between 07.45-08.10 and only two departures at 08.30, 08.35.

dowlingm · 12-02-2012, 21:48

What is the equipment for the 0833 usually? Would it work to join an empty three car at Portlaoise to the incoming three set ex Ballybrophy?

After reading ACustomer's post I did have a thought that one option would be to make the service "up only" - a 22K dispatched ex Limerick via Ballybrophy but returned to Limerick via Limerick Junction with passengers for Nenagh transferring from a Cork/Tralee down service in the evenings to a "standard" Limerick-Ballybrophy shuttle service. But then it occurred to me that this train would still require someone to drive back the ETS staff if it "escaped" as did the GAA special that time. It's just a botch job, isn't it? Why is it necessary that passengers ex Nenagh get a free run when passengers from M3 Parkway must now shiver at Clonsilla in the hope the incoming Maynooth service won't be jammed?

Kilocharlie · 12-02-2012, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm

What is the equipment for the 0833 usually? Would it work to join an empty three car at Portlaoise to the incoming three set ex Ballybrophy?

The 0833 arrival is the 0720 from Portaoise and is a 6-piece or 2x3. The 0515 ex Westport, howeve, is a 3 car.

Inniskeen · 12-02-2012, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm

What is the equipment for the 0833 usually? Would it work to join an empty three car at Portlaoise to the incoming three set ex Ballybrophy?

After reading ACustomer's post I did have a thought that one option would be to make the service "up only" - a 22K dispatched ex Limerick via Ballybrophy but returned to Limerick via Limerick Junction with passengers for Nenagh transferring from a Cork/Tralee down service in the evenings to a "standard" Limerick-Ballybrophy shuttle service. But then it occurred to me that this train would still require someone to drive back the ETS staff if it "escaped" as did the GAA special that time. It's just a botch job, isn't it? Why is it necessary that passengers ex Nenagh get a free run when passengers from M3 Parkway must now shiver at Clonsilla in the hope the incoming Maynooth service won't be jammed?

Where is this stuff about driving ETS staffs about coming from ? There is a standard ETS instrument at Ballybrophy. The main difference from a normal ETS controlled section is that the staff is not normally placed in the instruments at either Roscrea or Ballybrophy except as required to faciltate the release of a staff at Ballybrophy for a train from the mainline to the branch or to release a staff at Roscrea after a train has left the branch. Operation of the various connections on the branch and between the branch and the mainline requires the ETS token to be at Ballybrophy.

Destructix · 13-02-2012, 02:12

I would like to see services on this line but hope no more money is wasted on services if nobody is going to use it. At the moment this just sounds like they are giving CPR to a corpse and Iarnród Éireann have learned nothing from the WRC project.

dowlingm · 13-02-2012, 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

Where is this stuff about driving ETS staffs about coming from ? There is a standard ETS instrument at Ballybrophy. The main difference from a normal ETS controlled section is that the staff is not normally placed in the instruments at either Roscrea or Ballybrophy except as required to faciltate the release of a staff at Ballybrophy for a train from the mainline to the branch or to release a staff at Roscrea after a train has left the branch. Operation of the various connections on the branch and between the branch and the mainline requires the ETS token to be at Ballybrophy.

You may recall this post, which is what I was basing it on:
http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showpo...71&postcount=7
There is some (dated) discussion along similar lines here:
http://irishrailwaynews.multiply.com...journal%2Fitem

12-02-2012, 19:34	#1
Traincustomer Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ar an traein Posts: 602	Afterthought... Obviously these additional services require extra money but one wonders is the IÉ to NTA application to operate them of a: (i) mere request to operate additional trains nature OR (ii) request to operate additional trains including a request for funding of same nature A request of type (ii) may not necessarily be the case; perhaps IÉ can somehow obtain the requisite money/ balance it against savings elsewhere. A request of type (i) is highly likely to succeed , a request of type (ii) is likely to be a bit harder. (labels (i) and (ii) assigned for convenience of discussion and no importance attaches to them otherwise)

12-02-2012, 20:02	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	I would imagine Irish Rail management are smart enough to be seeking extra cash in return for the service Given the dire financial position (its seriously dire) it would be negligent to add extra cost onto the bottom line without additional support from the NTA. Subsidy is down almost 50 million or more than 25% down over the last 5 years. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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12-02-2012, 20:48	#3
Kilocharlie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 395	Going back to the suggested 0820 arrival in Heuston. Not withstanding that 0820 is allocated to the 0600 from Waterford, this is actually quite a busy time on this route with arrivals at 0810 (Cork),0815(Kildare), 0820(Waterford), 0833(Portlaoise), 0838(Westport),[sometimes reversed], 0840(Limerick), 0845(Cork), 0855(Portlaoise)[overtaken by the previous 2], etc. The apparent 13 min gap between the 0820 (Waterford) and 0833 (0720 ex Portlaoise) is just the difference between a non-stop and stopping service- they have only a 5 min, and often less, gap in Kildare. The only place they could squeeze an extra arrival is between the 0720 ex Portlaoise (Kildare at 0746) and the 0515 ex Westport (Kildare at 0855) with an arrival around 0835 and delay the Westport a minute or two. But even that could have consequential delays to the Limerick and Cork services.

12-02-2012, 21:48	#5
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	What is the equipment for the 0833 usually? Would it work to join an empty three car at Portlaoise to the incoming three set ex Ballybrophy? After reading ACustomer's post I did have a thought that one option would be to make the service "up only" - a 22K dispatched ex Limerick via Ballybrophy but returned to Limerick via Limerick Junction with passengers for Nenagh transferring from a Cork/Tralee down service in the evenings to a "standard" Limerick-Ballybrophy shuttle service. But then it occurred to me that this train would still require someone to drive back the ETS staff if it "escaped" as did the GAA special that time. It's just a botch job, isn't it? Why is it necessary that passengers ex Nenagh get a free run when passengers from M3 Parkway must now shiver at Clonsilla in the hope the incoming Maynooth service won't be jammed?

13-02-2012, 02:12	#8
Destructix Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Tipperary Posts: 258	I would like to see services on this line but hope no more money is wasted on services if nobody is going to use it. At the moment this just sounds like they are giving CPR to a corpse and Iarnród Éireann have learned nothing from the WRC project.