Integrated Ticketing

[robdrysdale]

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

The terminals are only updated every couple of hours, so you need to allow time for the top-up to get around the system. However, the amount of information that the buses have is limited - it seems they can only accept the information on the card, they don't get told about the top-up by the central database.

Wonder how auto direct debit will work when it's implemented then. Given Dublin Bus carry circa 120m passengers per annum with DART circa 20m and Luas circa 25m, there's likely lots of passengers like myself who mainly use the bus.

I accept every system has technical limitations just wonder how this will work. Would obviously be a pain if auto Direct Debit doesn't work for Bus.

[Kilocharlie]

Iarnród Éireann services

Iarnród Éireann provides, Intercity, DART & Commuter passenger rail services throughout Ireland.
The Leap Card is only valid on DART & Commuter services in the short hop zone.

The DART service, which operates between Greystones and Howth/Malahide.
The Commuter service which operates in the Dublin area between Gorey, Drogheda, Maynooth, the newly opened Dunboyne (M3) line, as well as the Commuter service to Kildare.

Questions:

• Does this exclude point-to-point annual passes?
• When they say Kildare, to they mean Kildare Town?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Kilocharlie

Questions:

• Does this exclude point-to-point annual passes?
• When they say Kildare, to they mean Kildare Town?

Where is that quote from, it appears to be wrong. The Short Hop Zone only extends to Balbriggan, M3 Parkway, Maynooth, Hazelhatch & Celbridge and Greystones*. Stops beyond that have no validators.


* Stictly Kilcoole, but it doesn't have validators.

[Kilocharlie]

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

Where is that quote from, it appears to be wrong. The Short Hop Zone only extends to Balbriggan, M3 Parkway, Maynooth, Hazelhatch & Celbridge and Greystones*. Stops beyond that have no validators.


* Stictly Kilcoole, but it doesn't have validators.

It's on the leadcard.ie web site here

Kildare, Newbridge and Sallins are getting Validators soon.

What about LeapCard and Point-to_point annual tickets?

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail issued annual tickets are smart cards for all destinations now and these work the gates at Drogheda and Dundalk currently and will work the gates elsewhere in the extended GDA

It will be possible to have an annual pass for points beyond the short hop zone.

Remember LEAP is the basis of a national system

[Mark Gleeson]

Despite the minister claiming otherwise, you can expect problems when using Dublin Bus. The RUI test group hit problems on a number of buses on Friday afternoon. Driver training in Dublin Bus is in our opinion weak and many are not confident in using the system. Its improving but it will take time.

For most bus users they will still have to board drivers side (if paying 2.10 or less), if thats you here is our 'crash course' in using leap on Dublin Bus featuring all you need to train the driver while you get your ticket.

Place card on the target on the front of the drivers ticket machine, the balance should be displayed on the 2 line display

• To issue a normal fare, driver pushes same button as normal no change
• To issue a city centre/shopper fare, driver pushes square button, then 3rd or 4th button down (depends on route) and from there as normal
• You don't get a paper ticket if you do you have been double charged, insist on the spot the driver reverses the transaction (very limited time window to do this)

When the transaction is complete you should

1. See the stage name, stage number and fare deducted displayed
2. See a green light and a hear a beep

Remove the card at this point

Known problems

• The red light is lit on the front of the machine -> It won't work you should be allowed travel for free
• The display on the drivers machine is blank or unreadable -> Known issue will still work
• I heard no beep -> Some of the ticket machines have the beep turned off
• Driver tried and tried and all I got is a huge ticket with my history -> Either driver error or system broken

[robdrysdale]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Despite the minister claiming otherwise, you can expect problems when using Dublin Bus. The RUI test group hit problems on a number of buses on Friday afternoon. Driver training in Dublin Bus is in our opinion weak and many are not confident in using the system. Its improving but it will take time.

I think you're being very polite about the Dublin Bus problems. Boards.ie has been alight with poor opinion and experience with regard to operation of the Leap Card on the Bus.

From a basic UX perspective it's a disaster of a system. It takes twice as long on average to pay as the cash system so increases rather than decreases dwell times. The drivers screen switches from cash mode to luas mode which from a UX point of few disorientates so adds a few seconds for driver to click button. Then there's a awkward pause waiting for small green light to display. Beep is nearly never there and when it is it's so faint it's barely audible. The passenger screen is tiny, at a weird angle for most people (unless you're 6ft 7 perhaps) and is so dim it's near impossible to read. I've full hearing and sight BTW. How this system passed basic accessibility requirements I'll never know.

Really it should be flat fare. Given they don't seem to want that for fare protection and revenue loss purposes it should be tag-on/tag-off on the right hand side. Not all smart card systems are like this but plenty are so it is technologically possible with the right equipment.

Also the idea to support charging of multiple fares on the same card (when the other modes don't support it) qualifies under the law of unintended consequences. It provides limited benefit but leads to most of the errors. It should be done away with (if they insist on sticking with driver system).

Getting a refund is difficult as in presupposed driver knows how to perform complex operation under pressure when there's a long queue of passengers waiting to pay.

I know this is a rail users groups so I've mainly posted my gripes on boards.ie but if you've any influence over the powers that be, please feed back about the complete and utter disgust with this element of the system amongst most of the test group.

I got no survey to complete this time round and I hadn't used the bus when we did the earlier phase of testing and I completed survey.

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by robdrysdale

Wonder how auto direct debit will work when it's implemented then. Given Dublin Bus carry circa 120m passengers per annum with DART circa 20m and Luas circa 25m, there's likely lots of passengers like myself who mainly use the bus.

I accept every system has technical limitations just wonder how this will work. Would obviously be a pain if auto Direct Debit doesn't work for Bus.

London manages automatic top-up on buses; the auto top up is a card-side setting so if a bus (or any touch-in) detects a card below £8 it automatically puts £20 on it; when the bus driver downloads his module at base it notifies the central system who has topped up, and their card is debited within a couple of days.

[Colm Moore]

But surely, if I set my auto top-up to trigger at €X for a top-up of €Y, only the central system needs to know and tell buses, not buses telling the central system?

[Mark Gleeson]

Auto top up will work on Dublin Bus and will indeed work on all LEAP operators

Internet top up will be available on all private bus operators as well. Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann will not support internet top up.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Auto top up will work on Dublin Bus and will indeed work on all LEAP operators

Explain this. I'm just not understanding how it can relate to the operators.

Internet top up will be available on all private bus operators as well. Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann will not support internet top up.

Why don't they all just point to leapcard.ie rather than duplicating system (and potentially introducing weaknesses if a system isn't patched)?

[James Howard]

Interesting if brief article on deployment of smartcard bus tickets on multiple operators in several counties in the South West of the UK.

The figures involved indicate that their transport system must be only 1% as complex as ours. It involves two large bus companies and 11 smaller companies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/government...rtcard-readers

[Colm Moore]

Possibly a very simple system as it only covers free travel passes at the moment.

I presume it only covers local services in Somerset County council area and not Bristol / Bath / Weston-super-Mare

That would result in a fairly rural population and limited bus services.