New 22K trains

[Kilkea]

Just spotted brand spanking new 3x3 car sets at Heuston this morning in the sidings with temp numbers on them. Any idea when these will be tested and rolled out for general use? Will this mean another revised timetable or will they just solve all the 3 car overcrowding which is all over the place?

[Mark Gleeson]

Just means longer trains.

It will be some months before they are fully tested

The number is actually the short version of the official european/uic number/evn

So you end up with some guff like this 55 60 89 89605-5 which was formerly just 7605

[Jamie2k9]

A little of topic but where have IE moved the 3 sets of Mark3 from Heuston. They gone with a while. 2200 are generally down beside plt 10 where they used to be. Have they sold them?

[Kilocharlie]

From the Irish Rail Facebook page:

We’ve just taken delivery of the first 12 of 57 new Intercity railcar carriages on order, a fleet expansion worth €140 million, at Dublin Port.

The remainder of the full order will be delivered through the rest of this year and early 2012, and you’ll see them roll out across the network from later this year.

We’ll put them where demand is greatest, and we’re also talking to Translink about possible use on extra Enterprise services, for an hourly service between Dublin and Belfast.

The order completes the transformation of Iarnród Éireann’s Intercity fleet from the oldest to the newest in Western Europe, along with the 67 CAF (Mark IV) carriages on the Dublin-Cork route.

This fleet was ordered from Mitsui of Japan, in partnership with Hyundai Rotem of the Republic of Korea and Tokyu Car Corporation of Japan, and were manufactured in Korea. The fleet was funded by the Exchequer under the transport capital investment programme.

[karlr42]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

A little of topic but where have IE moved the 3 sets of Mark3 from Heuston. They gone with a while. 2200 are generally down beside plt 10 where they used to be. Have they sold them?

No, they were just moved to North Wall to make room.

[Mark Gleeson]

But none of the 51 new units are fitted for cross border service and none have first class. Only 6 3 car sets are fitted for NIR use, none have first

Translink turned down the 4 million cost of 50% of the Mk3 fleet option, so very much doubt cross border will happen. The problem is the ongoing cost which neither side are willing to bear. Irish Rail talk a lot with Translink, Translink listen a lot but rarely say anything.

Rosslare will get extra services, extra capacity on Galway/Westport/Waterford and long distance commuter will be ICR as well

[comcor]

Will they take the commuter carriages off the Wexford service.

Dun Laoghaire-Wexford seemed an awful long way on a commuter railcar.

[dowlingm]

Are we saying all incremental services must have 1st? I wouldn't. Keep the existing DD rotations, add four sets from 22001-06 as 2 consists of all econ extras.

However, I would not commit that without NI committing to stamping on the security messing and bringing forward spending on the track currently deferred.

[Jamie2k9]

The only difference between first class and standard class on 2200 is the tables and chairs are different colour and there is a shop at the end of the car. Take away the shop and the carriages are the same.

[sean]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

The only difference between first class and standard class on 2200 is the tables and chairs are different colour and there is a shop at the end of the car. Take away the shop and the carriages are the same.

Exactly, from what I've seen of the "Premier" seats when those sets come on the Sligo line, the service is a joke, it's clearly "Premier" in name only.

Incidentally, I saw a 22k set going down the Midland line heading for the M3 Parkway, while when I had to take the Sligo train to Longford on Sunday it was a 29k ...

[James Howard]

Quite a lot of Sligo services are still operated by 29k. The 0905 down train is always a 29k and when I have had occasion to take the 1505 down a couple of times recently, it was a 29k as well.

Yet on a regular basis, the 0545 up train crosses with a 22k heading for Clonsilla around Broombridge. The 29K is perfectly adequate for a trip as far as Mullingar and reasonable for Longford, but it is a bit out of order to be using them for Sligo.

Irish Rail's recent attitude to facilities on trains has always struck me as a bit odd. They removed first class from Sligo somewhere between 10 and 15 years ago and I can understand why because almost nobody paid for it and if you did pay for it you had to find a staff member to shift some smelly student out of your seat (the smelly student usually being me at the time). In fairness, the standard of accommodation on the 22k is good enough that first class would only really be for snob value. It isn't necessary for any practical purpose.

But the bar car used to do a roaring trade on the old trains and the omission of some sort of shop from a 3 hour journey is a bit odd. I guess Irish Rail worked out that they can make more money from the combination of a trolley and another 20 seats than they can from the shop - particularly when the catering is outsourced. It just seems to me that the ability to purchase some sort of a hot meal - even if it were just a toastie - would give people more reason to travel by rail at a time when road journey times are as good if not better.

[Mark Gleeson]

That ICR set is meant to be on the 5:55 Gorey Dublin service but due a rostering change due engineering works it finds itself in the wrong place. Some of the first of the new ICR's are destined for Sligo and Rosslare

The ICR catering offering is not great but equally demand is not great either the current trolley offering does offer full bar service as well which previously was not the case. Even on trains with full catering take up is low.

For the record I have been served hot food on a Sligo standard class 3 coach ICR, so it is possible.

And the price of hot food goes down on the train tomorrow two weeks late but any reduction is welcome

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

But none of the 51 new units are fitted for cross border service and none have first class. Only 6 3 car sets are fitted for NIR use, none have first

Translink turned down the 4 million cost of 50% of the Mk3 fleet option, so very much doubt cross border will happen. The problem is the ongoing cost which neither side are willing to bear. Irish Rail talk a lot with Translink, Translink listen a lot but rarely say anything.

Rosslare will get extra services, extra capacity on Galway/Westport/Waterford and long distance commuter will be ICR as well

Irish Rail need to seriously improve their longer distance commuter offering on the northern line. Improving Enterprise frequency and fast commuter services would be a very positive move in the right direction. Given the avalanche of new ICRs (and some spare capacity on the NIR side), I would be surprised if some progress is not made in this direction. ICRs would supplement, not replace De-Dietrich stock.

Reference in other posts to the condition of NIR track is a little misplaced given the litany of track/bridge related speed restrictions currently in place on Irish Rail - Connolly/East Wall, Clongriffin, Malahide, Laytown, Drogheda and Dundalk.

[Mark Gleeson]

The majority of delays are on the NIR side and have been for some time

And as Translink admit

PASSENGER INFORMATION: Enterprise Services - Due to essential maintenance works delays of around 10 minutes are anticipated on all Cross Border rail services until further notice. Everything possible will be done to minimise delays. NI Railways and Iarnród Éireann apologise to all passengers for the inconvenience caused.

This is due mainly as a result of speed restrictions over long sections in Northern Ireland which were not relaid during the upgrade program

There are several bad sections on both sides of Lisburn

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The majority of delays are on the NIR side and have been for some time

This is due mainly as a result of speed restrictions over long sections in Northern Ireland which were not relaid during the upgrade program

There are several bad sections on both sides of Lisburn

The only "long section" of line subject to speed restriction in Northern Ireland is the 7 mile stretch between Moira and Lisburn which is currently restricted to 60 mph. In my experience by far the greatest source of delay to cross border services arises from poor scheduling and poor traffic management, most of it south of Drogheda. For example it is absolutely routine for out of course DART trains to wander onto the Belfast line just north of Connolly immediately ahead of an Enterprise departure. The same practice is routine southbound at Howth Junction and Malahide. This nonsense alone can result in a delay of 10 to 15 minutes.

The most disruptive speed restriction of late was the 10 mph at Laytown due to the seriously sub-standard condition of Bridge No 72 over the River Nanny. The delays associated with this restriction were the reason for the NIR advisory you quote. As I said in my previous post the line south of Drogheda is riddled with speed restrictions although there has been some improvement in recent months.

[Ron Burgundy]

Originally Posted by sean

Exactly, from what I've seen of the "Premier" seats when those sets come on the Sligo line, the service is a joke, it's clearly "Premier" in name only.
Incidentally, I saw a 22k set going down the Midland line heading for the M3 Parkway, while when I had to take the Sligo train to Longford on Sunday it was a 29k ...

Your seat if further away from the table as well

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by sean

Exactly, from what I've seen of the "Premier" seats when those sets come on the Sligo line, the service is a joke, it's clearly "Premier" in name only.

Incidentally, I saw a 22k set going down the Midland line heading for the M3 Parkway, while when I had to take the Sligo train to Longford on Sunday it was a 29k ...

Thats a fair point and I dont understand why they use 22ks on m3 line services but if you saw the m3 train using the midland line it had to be during the week and during the week all sligo trains are 22k operated aren't they?

[James Howard]

During the week not all Sligo line services are 22k. The 0905 from Connolly is always a 29k and the last two times I took the 1600 down, it was a 29k.

[dowlingm]

Presumably the reason a 22 set is used on some M3 services is that they are needed elsewhere before a set can go out to Sligo and back.

[sean]

Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy

Your seat if further away from the table as well

Yes, to give the impression of 'more space' at the seats ...

like I said, a joke.