Waterford Rosslare to close

[iknowwhereiamgoing]

What a sad day for the rail network when one of Ireland's most scenic and historic railways is allowed to close without any attempt to run a decent service on the line. No attempt either to look outside the box to look at other possible income flows, like heritage and tourist trains trains to augment a decent regular timetable. There are a few lines in the UK where this has been tried successfully. Where there was once trains, now only the weeds will grow, like other mothballed lines, Keep fighting this.

[Mark Gleeson]

But this is the problem this continued assumption that some class of heritage based solution will work.

What has been shocking is the number of people who supposedly support railways who don't want private operation or used these events as a platform to address a grudge they have with Irish Rail or CIE.

The line is not closing, its being suspended which is quite different. Independent engineering consultants will review the line on a regular basis. If the line is not maintained in line with the agreed standard (which will go further than Irish Rail's proposal to the NTA) Irish Rail will be required by contract to sort it out.

Despite Irish Rail's desire to save money the reality is that if a private operator shows up (and that is not fanciful) Irish Rail will actually lose as much money as they did before. There is based on meetings last week full support from various government elements to ensure that Irish Rail permit and treat with respect any operator who arrives.

[on the move]

The line is closing Mark. It will never be re-opened again. While the idea of a private operator filling the gap is there, there is no serious possibility of the operator getting the considerable resources in place to run the service, and the line will go into disrepair, as did the other lines that were/have been closed for decades. If the current service wasn't viable to the state company, even a seasonal service wouldn't be viable to a private firm.

In any case, like with the Drogheda-Dublin disruption last year, once commuters get used to the bus, few if any will want to return to travel 50 kilometres by rail, when they could do the same distance more frequently in a little over half the time. The road network reigns supreme at the moment. The line may officially be "suspended", but in reality, it is shutting down permanently at 6.30 this evening.

A step backwards today in an already poor national service.

[Mark Gleeson]

With due respect you haven't met the NTA nor spoken to one of the private operators. Thanks to the EU cost wise the private operator only pays a charge based on network average cost so the high running costs of the line cannot be passed on to the private operator, so its good for us very bad for Irish Rail. If Irish Rail block a third party they will find themselves in trouble.

Irish Rail will be punished if the line is not maintained to the agreed standard.

And if you knew anything about Waterford Rosslare you would know the train is 30 minutes faster so the bus argument cannot hold.

[iknowwhereiamgoing]

I think there is some confusion in the last comment I made. I am in no way suggesting that this line could be totally maintained and run as a totally heritage operation. 35 miles and a major expensive to maintain bridge is beyond a mainly volunteer operation. All I was suggesting that the line's scenic qualities would to suitable for special trains in the summer months to augment a normal timetabled service. (For example the West Highland Line in Scotland) In no way am I opposed to a private company running this line or any other for that matter as long as a decent service is offered. I want to see the network flourish whether by private or public means. I would also like to see the Athenry - Tuam - Claremorris (western Rail Corridor) opened ASAP and the Midleton - Youghal commuter line. (That line is a more suitable candidate for a heritage operation but once again I would rather see it as a normal line with a heritage add on) You seem sure that the Waterford - Rosslare would be maintained in good condition as it was not closing. I beleive that the line to Youghal was not officially closed but look at the state of it now!!

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by iknowwhereiamgoing

I beleive that the line to Youghal was not officially closed but look at the state of it now!!

I think that there needs to be a realisation that there has been a régime change. No longer is the situation run by the CIÉ "least resistance route" with a nod and wink from an indifferent department that only really got involved when there was a major problem and a ministerial team that was out for goodies for constituents.

While one can look at the NTA and think, jadedly, that its just a hived off bit of the DoT, one still needs to realise that there is a legally binding contract in place for the first time and that that contract is overseen, not in Dublin, but in Brussels ... and London, Paris, Amsterdam and Berlin where such contracts have been the norm for decades and that operators under such contracts are looking to expand their markets. While yes there are hurdles, the scene has changed utterly in the last 6 months.

[Traincustomer]

I fully agree that there has been a sea change in the regime and that the prospect of seeing passenger services on the line is quite real.

Understandably it's only human nature (based on past experiences) that many are sceptical of the line seeing passenger services again.

[on the move]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

With due respect you haven't met the NTA nor spoken to one of the private operators. Thanks to the EU cost wise the private operator only pays a charge based on network average cost so the high running costs of the line cannot be passed on to the private operator, so its good for us very bad for Irish Rail. If Irish Rail block a third party they will find themselves in trouble.

Irish Rail will be punished if the line is not maintained to the agreed standard.

And if you knew anything about Waterford Rosslare you would know the train is 30 minutes faster so the bus argument cannot hold.

Raillines have been closed before, a few have only recently been re-opened following decades of inertia, many others remain closed. Unlike in the UK and across Europe, one operator rules the roost here with regard to rail transport, and they've just closed this line within the past hour.

Commuters will get used to the bus and will support it. As they did last year with a much busier traffic route. The roads are very good now, and will get better again leading to ever faster journey times.

I did the journey only last month, and I want the line to remain open to the public. However I know that realistically, it won't be opened again.

[dowlingm]

The notion that the private operator would pay average costs while IE pays the difference is interesting, but given the argument over community rating in the health sector the government must do a better job of managing the new entrant vs the relative gorilla that is CIE. Were a private operator to be able to apply for a relatively lucrative route by revenue but pay lower costs than IE itself would pay, this could destabilise IE finances.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The line is not closing, its being suspended which is quite different. Independent engineering consultants will review the line on a regular basis. If the line is not maintained in line with the agreed standard (which will go further than Irish Rail's proposal to the NTA) Irish Rail will be required by contract to sort it out.

A couple of weeks ago, I took the first train of the day down from Dublin to Waterford and cycled to Rosslare, returning back to Dublin on the last train.

There are a couple of level crossings near Wellingtonbridge where my road route came close to the old railway line. I'm not sure what standard has to be maintained on this line, but from what I could see there were plenty of high weeds along the line and the level crossings were silted up - it's clearly a long time since a train went along this route to ensure its viability is maintained.

I'd prefer to see this route reinstated rather than turn it into another Greenway - the road route is quiet enough anyway. Some upgrade will definitely be required though.

[comcor]

There was a weed-spraying train went along it a couple of months ago. I think it goes down twice a year. Earlier in the year, the road under the rail bridge by Duncormick station had a significant slippage on it. While the rail bridge itself seemed unaffected, I'm guessing it didn't get the level of inspection that there would have been if the rail line was active. More than likely if there are issues that would prevent the viability of any reopening, it will be unseen ones on the major engineering structures rather than weeds, which are easy enough to remove. The Barrow Bridge, as a particularly large and complex structure, would be the biggest area of concern