Bus/Luas collision on O'Connell St

on the move · 20-09-2009, 01:30

My own theory on it is. The bus driver had the green light, but then got stuck in traffic on the far side, by which time the traffic lights were red, and allowed the Luas to go. The Luas then smashed into the bus.

The whole accident at a notorious flashpoint junction, is an eerie reminder of why we should have had a Metro system, or at the very least a bridge crossing the street for the trams, similiar to the train bridge nearby. You wouldn't see trains attempting to cross streets full of other vehicles in a city centre, so trams shouldn't be allowed either. Instead you have an "Irish" solution, and it leaves the tram a sitting duck without a bridge or barriers as protection for crossing the busiest street in the city. It is solely down to the goodwill and discipline of other transport users that there haven't been more serious incidents on it so far.

undo · 20-09-2009, 01:37

While I agree the Abbey St/O'Connell St junction is rather unfortunate and dangerous, I do think your theory fits the accident: The tram was clearly derailed, its front dragged on quite a distance in the direction of traffic on O'Connell St. IMHO, that can only have happened with the bus moving at considerable speed - and not suck in traffic.

Kilocharlie · 20-09-2009, 10:29

On the move refers to the tram system as an 'Irish solution'. If one were to visit any European city with trams - Amsterdam, Vienna and many more, one would see that the Dublin Luas is actually built to a higher standard with far more seqregation from traffic. Trams crossing main routes is common place; Luas is nothing different. Trams even go through pedestrian zones!

In Vienna, trams run down the middle of some streets and the stops are simply in the middle of the street; no platforms. Traffic is expected to stop while passengers disembark and make their way to the footpath. In other areas, trams share road space with traffic; this only happens is a very few places on Luas - Beresfort Place and Thomas Street. Also many of the older trams around Europe are totally non-wheelchair accessible unlike Luas which is excellent in this regard.

It is also clear the both bus and tram were moving at speed so there is no possibility that the bus was stuck in traffic.

Mark Gleeson · 04-06-2010, 13:35

Quote:

Driver charged over Luas crash
Related
21 injured as Luas and bus crash in city centre | 17/09/2009
Bus had green light - CIE head | 17/09/2009
Luas Crash - Eyewitness Reports | 17/09/2009
The driver of a Luas tram has been charged in connection with a collision with a Dublin Bus on O’Connell Street in the city.

More than 20 people were injured, three seriously, in the incident on September 16th last year.

Oriyomi Emmanuel (37) of Jamestown Park, Ratoath, Co Meath, appeared before the Dublin District Court yesterday and was remanded on bail to appear again on July 28th, the Courts Service said.

Mr Emmanuel was charged with dangerous driving causing injury to Suzanne Cribbon under the Road Traffic Act.

He was also charged with driving his Luas tram in a dangerous manner that posed an unreasonable risk of harm.

The crash between the Luas red line tram and a number16 bus, occurred at the busy junction of O’Connell Street and Abbey Street.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking38.html

So it appears the gardai have obtained sufficient evidence to prove the bus had the right of way and that the Luas jumped a stop signal

Thomas Ralph · 04-06-2010, 13:56

Twas on the Evening Herald too.

MrX · 04-06-2010, 15:51

I thought the Luas had some kind of automation which prevented it from passing a stop signal ?

Clearly isn't the case in the city centre at least if it was possible to jump the lights!

Mark Gleeson · 04-06-2010, 16:30

The Luas is a permissive system so you may start against a red light, though the system will force you to stop approaching a red it appears.

Exact same as the DART really, you can start against a red signal but you get a warning buzzer. If in motion buzzer comes on and the train automatically stops if the driver doesn't select at least neutral, either way train brakes to a walking pace itself

20-09-2009, 01:30	#1
on the move Regular Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 176	My own theory on it is. The bus driver had the green light, but then got stuck in traffic on the far side, by which time the traffic lights were red, and allowed the Luas to go. The Luas then smashed into the bus. The whole accident at a notorious flashpoint junction, is an eerie reminder of why we should have had a Metro system, or at the very least a bridge crossing the street for the trams, similiar to the train bridge nearby. You wouldn't see trains attempting to cross streets full of other vehicles in a city centre, so trams shouldn't be allowed either. Instead you have an "Irish" solution, and it leaves the tram a sitting duck without a bridge or barriers as protection for crossing the busiest street in the city. It is solely down to the goodwill and discipline of other transport users that there haven't been more serious incidents on it so far. __________________ "We'd like to apologise for..." Last edited by on the move : 20-09-2009 at 01:33.

20-09-2009, 10:29	#3
Kilocharlie Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 395	Irish Solution? On the move refers to the tram system as an 'Irish solution'. If one were to visit any European city with trams - Amsterdam, Vienna and many more, one would see that the Dublin Luas is actually built to a higher standard with far more seqregation from traffic. Trams crossing main routes is common place; Luas is nothing different. Trams even go through pedestrian zones! In Vienna, trams run down the middle of some streets and the stops are simply in the middle of the street; no platforms. Traffic is expected to stop while passengers disembark and make their way to the footpath. In other areas, trams share road space with traffic; this only happens is a very few places on Luas - Beresfort Place and Thomas Street. Also many of the older trams around Europe are totally non-wheelchair accessible unlike Luas which is excellent in this regard. It is also clear the both bus and tram were moving at speed so there is no possibility that the bus was stuck in traffic.

04-06-2010, 16:30	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The Luas is a permissive system so you may start against a red light, though the system will force you to stop approaching a red it appears. Exact same as the DART really, you can start against a red signal but you get a warning buzzer. If in motion buzzer comes on and the train automatically stops if the driver doesn't select at least neutral, either way train brakes to a walking pace itself __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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20-09-2009, 01:37	#2
undo Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 95	While I agree the Abbey St/O'Connell St junction is rather unfortunate and dangerous, I do think your theory fits the accident: The tram was clearly derailed, its front dragged on quite a distance in the direction of traffic on O'Connell St. IMHO, that can only have happened with the bus moving at considerable speed - and not suck in traffic.

04-06-2010, 13:56	#5
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	Twas on the Evening Herald too.

04-06-2010, 15:51	#6
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	I thought the Luas had some kind of automation which prevented it from passing a stop signal ? Clearly isn't the case in the city centre at least if it was possible to jump the lights!