Iarnród Éireann ordered to pay €750, review Free Travel Pass policy

Thomas Ralph · 21-04-2009, 12:43

In a decision by the Equality Tribunal (link), Iarnród Éireann has been ordered to pay €750 to a disabled person and review its ticket issue policy. The matter arose because Iarnród Éireann does not advance-issue DSFA free tickets and requires passengers using a DSFA pass to present themselves in person to the booking office each day and does not permit season tickets.

alek smart · 25-04-2009, 11:13

Wow,the somewhat awful truth emerges in Para.3.2 of the adjudication with a throwaway description of the number of PASSES in circulation.......Circa 600,000.
That "Circa" is the important word here as it tends to show that the Authorities have no idea of just how great their actual financial exposure to the Free Travel Scheme is.

If one factors in Spouses,Companions,Irregular Usage and downright Fraudulent usage then we can easily be looking at 1,000,000 persons who derive regular benefit from "Free" Travel.

It`s very revealing to note the highly restrictive conditions which Northern Ireland`s Authorities placed on the Republics Free Pass holders gaining access to Translinks services.

Applications to be made personally.
Identity of Pass Holder to be double verified on application.
Issue of a Smart Card enabled pass to allow for full and accurate cost recovery.
OAP Pass Holder ONLY recognised for Free Travel on Translinks Services.

The NIO and Translink were sufficiently wary of the vast Black Hole presented to them by the DFSA to take a prudent step back from the "Full Extension of Free Travel across the 32 Counties" originally promised by Seamus Brennan upon his taking Office as Minister for Social Affairs.

In the current climate the DFSA Free Travel scheme requires URGENT attention if it`is not to collapse totally which would be a VERY backward step for what was one of the most far sighted schemes ever introduced by an Irish Govewrnment !

Mark Hennessy · 25-04-2009, 14:24

Good post and summary.

Given that the entire social welfare system is going to have to be examined in preparation for cutbacks in December, what is the best way of reforming this system?

Certainly the smart cards should be used as soon as available to start giving some quantifiable information about use of the system. I certainly don't trust IE to keep track of this system as it currently stands.

Thomas Ralph · 25-04-2009, 14:41

Using a smartcard based system instead of the current scraps of paper is the only way to go, I think. Pity that IÉ ticket machines (staff machines as well as vending machines) and most Bus Éireann ticket machines can't handle smart cards.

Mark Gleeson · 25-04-2009, 15:12

The Irish Rail ticket vending machines can handle smartcards, they just haven't been enabled yet

The senior smart pass up North is the way to go, the pass contains a smartcard and is presented to the driver/conductor/clerk who places it on the machine and the ticket is issued. They have 100% traceability on exactly who travelled where and you can't fake the pass

The current Irish system is a farce, no one knows how many passes there are, there is no way to verify a pass is actually valid and the number of variations on the pass is simply crazy, and in some cases you really wonder how people actually get the pass in the first place

Ideally it would work like this

1. Within Dublin commuter belt (Cork, Limerick etc) present pass to the reader/gate on bus/luas/train, so no more queuing but 100% traceability

2. For long distance present to booking office/driver etc and get a ticket issued

Thomas Ralph · 25-04-2009, 15:42

That'd make too much sense for CIÉ to do, Mark :\

Colm Moore · 25-04-2009, 21:43

My father (retired worker - state pension): Pass holder + 1 pass
My father (retired(?) housewife - means tested pension): Pass holder only
My sister (nervous disposition, can't travel alone): Companion passes

Um, photo ID and signature, credit card size, etc. Pass holder + 1 passes should be abolished, but you can't do that with companion passes (where the pass holder needs to be accompanied). Nominated companions? Or possibly companion pays reduced fare. All these need to be specified, otherwise the abuse will just go on.

dowlingm · 27-04-2009, 03:12

Not directly on topic, but the local suburban standard monthly ticket equivalent in these parts gives a free companion entitlement on Sat/Sun to encourage commuters to use it on the weekend to go to sporting events and so on. Would be nice to see CIE reward the working stiff once in a while.

21-04-2009, 12:43	#1
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	Iarnród Éireann ordered to pay €750, review Free Travel Pass policy In a decision by the Equality Tribunal (link), Iarnród Éireann has been ordered to pay €750 to a disabled person and review its ticket issue policy. The matter arose because Iarnród Éireann does not advance-issue DSFA free tickets and requires passengers using a DSFA pass to present themselves in person to the booking office each day and does not permit season tickets.

25-04-2009, 15:12	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The Irish Rail ticket vending machines can handle smartcards, they just haven't been enabled yet The senior smart pass up North is the way to go, the pass contains a smartcard and is presented to the driver/conductor/clerk who places it on the machine and the ticket is issued. They have 100% traceability on exactly who travelled where and you can't fake the pass The current Irish system is a farce, no one knows how many passes there are, there is no way to verify a pass is actually valid and the number of variations on the pass is simply crazy, and in some cases you really wonder how people actually get the pass in the first place Ideally it would work like this 1. Within Dublin commuter belt (Cork, Limerick etc) present pass to the reader/gate on bus/luas/train, so no more queuing but 100% traceability 2. For long distance present to booking office/driver etc and get a ticket issued __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

25-04-2009, 21:43	#7
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	My father (retired worker - state pension): Pass holder + 1 pass My father (retired(?) housewife - means tested pension): Pass holder only My sister (nervous disposition, can't travel alone): Companion passes Um, photo ID and signature, credit card size, etc. Pass holder + 1 passes should be abolished, but you can't do that with companion passes (where the pass holder needs to be accompanied). Nominated companions? Or possibly companion pays reduced fare. All these need to be specified, otherwise the abuse will just go on. __________________

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

25-04-2009, 11:13	#2
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	Wow,the somewhat awful truth emerges in Para.3.2 of the adjudication with a throwaway description of the number of PASSES in circulation.......Circa 600,000. That "Circa" is the important word here as it tends to show that the Authorities have no idea of just how great their actual financial exposure to the Free Travel Scheme is. If one factors in Spouses,Companions,Irregular Usage and downright Fraudulent usage then we can easily be looking at 1,000,000 persons who derive regular benefit from "Free" Travel. It`s very revealing to note the highly restrictive conditions which Northern Ireland`s Authorities placed on the Republics Free Pass holders gaining access to Translinks services. Applications to be made personally. Identity of Pass Holder to be double verified on application. Issue of a Smart Card enabled pass to allow for full and accurate cost recovery. OAP Pass Holder ONLY recognised for Free Travel on Translinks Services. The NIO and Translink were sufficiently wary of the vast Black Hole presented to them by the DFSA to take a prudent step back from the "Full Extension of Free Travel across the 32 Counties" originally promised by Seamus Brennan upon his taking Office as Minister for Social Affairs. In the current climate the DFSA Free Travel scheme requires URGENT attention if it`is not to collapse totally which would be a VERY backward step for what was one of the most far sighted schemes ever introduced by an Irish Govewrnment !

25-04-2009, 14:24	#3
Mark Hennessy Membership Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Maynooth Posts: 1,116	Good post and summary. Given that the entire social welfare system is going to have to be examined in preparation for cutbacks in December, what is the best way of reforming this system? Certainly the smart cards should be used as soon as available to start giving some quantifiable information about use of the system. I certainly don't trust IE to keep track of this system as it currently stands.

25-04-2009, 14:41	#4
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	Using a smartcard based system instead of the current scraps of paper is the only way to go, I think. Pity that IÉ ticket machines (staff machines as well as vending machines) and most Bus Éireann ticket machines can't handle smart cards.

25-04-2009, 15:42	#6
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	That'd make too much sense for CIÉ to do, Mark :\

27-04-2009, 03:12	#8
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	Not directly on topic, but the local suburban standard monthly ticket equivalent in these parts gives a free companion entitlement on Sat/Sun to encourage commuters to use it on the weekend to go to sporting events and so on. Would be nice to see CIE reward the working stiff once in a while.