On-line Booking Madness

[ACustomer]

Yesterday I booked two 1st class Cork-Dublin tickets for business colleagues (total cost €174). They were due to travel at 1530, but this morning they had to change plans and needed to travel at 1830.

Apparently you can't change on-line bookings. They were told they could get a refund (3 weeks wait), and re-book, presumably lashing out another €174. Now I thought the whole point of high-priced business travel was flexibility (at least that's how the airlines operate). So IE can take a load of money off you in seconds on-line, but cannot refund your credit card in a simialr fashion, or heaven forbid, allow for a change in your booking.

I also find that the e-mail I got from IE confirming the original booking was very similar to what in the airline business is an electronic ticket. In case anyone form IE is reading this, I do believe that these electronic tickets are all the rage nowadays. So why is the IE "electronic ticket" not a ticket at all: why do you have to exchenge it for the real old-fashioned ticket at the booking office?

Bah!

[Mark Gleeson]

Well the T&C's clearly state a first class reservation ticket may be used on any other service provided you travel in standard class, and in practice the train manager will allow you to sit in first provided its not booked out

Alternatively you can simply buy a monthly first class return and pay the 3 euro online reservation charge, booking allowed up to 30 minutes before departure

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

Yesterday I booked two 1st class Cork-Dublin tickets for business colleagues (total cost €174). They were due to travel at 1530, but this morning they had to change plans and needed to travel at 1830.

Apparently you can't change on-line bookings. They were told they could get a refund (3 weeks wait), and re-book, presumably lashing out another €174. Now I thought the whole point of high-priced business travel was flexibility (at least that's how the airlines operate). So IE can take a load of money off you in seconds on-line, but cannot refund your credit card in a simialr fashion, or heaven forbid, allow for a change in your booking.

Indeed, it doesn't work that way.

Originally Posted by ACustomer

I also find that the e-mail I got from IE confirming the original booking was very similar to what in the airline business is an electronic ticket. In case anyone form IE is reading this, I do believe that these electronic tickets are all the rage nowadays. So why is the IE "electronic ticket" not a ticket at all: why do you have to exchenge it for the real old-fashioned ticket at the booking office?

Bah!

Airline tickets and boarding passes are verified by checking them off a computer system when they're tendered for use. IÉ tickets are not so verified at the ticket gate or on the train, so they have to be relatively forgery-proof.

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Alternatively you can simply buy a monthly first class return and pay the 3 euro online reservation charge, booking allowed up to 30 minutes before departure

That'll only give you a standard-class seat reservation. And it's €5 now On top of that, ACustomer was on about single tickets, not returns.

[ACustomer]

Thanks for the feedback. I wanted 2 first class singles, I paid €174, and got what I regard as a lousy degree of flexibility in return. I am aware that the possibility of using standard class on another train was allowed, but the risk of not having a seat on a Sunday evening was unacceptable to the people involved.

I take the point about e-mailed tickets not being verifiable at the electronic barriers (but does it have to be that way?). What I find totally unacceptable is the absence of an on-line re-booking feature: key in your details and re-book, charge a fee, especially if the ticket is a discount one, but the present situation is unacceptable.

A colleague who travels a lot could not believe how inflexible and customer unfriendly the whole thing was. Mick O'Leary must be disappointed: he has lost the prize for worst customer service!

[Mark Gleeson]

Reading the booking email, it appears clear that as the tickets have not yet been collected a change is possible and as the ticket issued was a fully flexible one either zero or a small admin charge would apply

If a user wishes to request any changes to or cancellation of a booking made on this website, depending on the conditions applicable to the ticket purchased, changes to or cancellation of your ticket may not be permitted and/or change/cancellation fees may apply.

[comcor]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

Airline tickets and boarding passes are verified by checking them off a computer system when they're tendered for use. IÉ tickets are not so verified at the ticket gate or on the train, so they have to be relatively forgery-proof.

It works in other countries.

I've travelled on an e-ticket on Finnish railway. The print out has a bar-code that can be scanned by the train guard when he's going through the train.

Not that difficult a system to implement and probably available for purchase off the shelf.

[Thomas Ralph]

Judging from past experience, I suspect the unions wouldn't agree to operate the system without a healthy increase.

[al2637]

Try having the ticket barriers read that

[ACustomer]

Well, the "admin charge" I encountered was €43.50, or 20% of the cost of the ticket. The crazy thing is that this charge is higher for full-fare first class tickets than for a lower-price ticket (it's set at 20%). In most organisations a full-price business class ticket should incur lower charges for changes: you are buying flexibility. Not on Irish Rail though

[train_traveller]

z

[on the move]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

Yesterday I booked two 1st class Cork-Dublin tickets for business colleagues (total cost €174). They were due to travel at 1530, but this morning they had to change plans and needed to travel at 1830.

Apparently you can't change on-line bookings. They were told they could get a refund (3 weeks wait), and re-book, presumably lashing out another €174. Now I thought the whole point of high-priced business travel was flexibility (at least that's how the airlines operate). So IE can take a load of money off you in seconds on-line, but cannot refund your credit card in a simialr fashion, or heaven forbid, allow for a change in your booking.

My query is, did they "need" to travel first-class at all? Fair enough, on the old trains, you needed every bit of comfort you could find. But in the "second class" carriages on long-haul routes now, the facilities are so good that you don't really need to travel first class, in order to travel in comfort. There are the standard restaurant car, and trolley-dollys strolling up the aisles.

Last year, I booked a train to Galway for €24, which was changed to a bus journey at the last minute. I decided to travel on the later train, and got the reservation switched no problem. Without having to pay another €24.

[sublimity]

Originally Posted by on the move

There are the standard restaurant car, and trolley-dollys strolling up the aisles.

Standard restaurant car? I think you'll find that they are few and far between on the 22ks. Its mainly just a trolley which is disgraceful.

Where is the restaurant car on the Sligo line for example? It was promised one 6 car set with first class and catering. Has that happened? no.

[dowlingm]

On VIA Rail here in Canada, VIA1 tickets are fully exchangeable and refundable - the only thing is you're not guaranteed a meal if you change same-day. However, my 2.5 hour return trip on Wednesday cost 206 Euro...

[Thomas Ralph]

I think I'll stick with paying €51 return from Heuston to Cork thank you

[train_traveller]

z

[on the move]

Originally Posted by train_traveller

I realise that all of the above makes me sound like (1) a snob (2) a s**t (3) a pr1ck (4) a fool with my money. I am none of the above.

No. 4 is applicable there.

A lot of the "inconveniences" highlighted above is nit-picking, and doesn't justify shelling out first-class fares.

If I want a reserved seat, I don't need first-class.
If I want to read the Times, I don't need first-class.
If I want comfort with/out a friend, I don't need first-class.
If I want to go to the toilet, I don't need first-class.
If I want to hold a conversation, I don't need first class.
If I want to get a bite to eat, I don't need first-class.
I can do without a laptop/net access for a few hours, everyone needs downtime.

The same goes for flying first-class on aeroplanes. You'll still arrive at the same time at your destination as everyone else.

A train/plane is not a workplace, it's purely a method in getting from A to B. If those running businesses saved Euros by sitting in standard/economy class, maybe they wouldn't complain about how big their costs are in their business, and it might help to cut the amount of redundancies in the current climate. If it saves even one job, it's worth it.

[train_traveller]

z

[Thomas Ralph]

I'd just point out that a first class return from Cork to Dublin is between €91 and €148, depending on when you travel.

[ACustomer]

In response to points made by On The Move and Train Traveller.

First On The Move asks "did they "need" to travel first clas at all?" There are two answers to this: one is "yes" and the second is "what an outrageous question!" The attitude behind this question is highly revealing: it perhaps explains why the concept of customer service is so absent in Irish pulbic transport. If there is a service provided at a premium price and I chose to spend my hard-earned money on it, how dare anyone question my "need"! It's my right and privelage, plain and simple.

Public transport in Ireland is largely foresaken by business people and the car-owining middle classes: one way of attracting them is to offer decent premium services. There are huge commecial reasons why a rail company should want to offer extra levels of comfort, peace and quiet, the opportinuty to do some work, the opportunity to have a decent meal, and so on.

A final comment which may have me branded as some sort of snob, but what the hell. Travelling by train on the Continent, I find that passenger behaviour is generally courteous and does not disturb one's enjoyment of the journey. In this country (and to some extent in the UK, although my experience of there is limited), the yob culture is often a factor which makes one wish for the peace and quiet of a premium carriage.

[PLUMB LOCO]

Originally Posted by on the move

No. 4 is applicable there.

A lot of the "inconveniences" highlighted above is nit-picking, and doesn't justify shelling out first-class fares.

If I want a reserved seat, I don't need first-class.
If I want to read the Times, I don't need first-class.
If I want comfort with/out a friend, I don't need first-class.
If I want to go to the toilet, I don't need first-class.
If I want to hold a conversation, I don't need first class.
If I want to get a bite to eat, I don't need first-class.
I can do without a laptop/net access for a few hours, everyone needs downtime.

The same goes for flying first-class on aeroplanes. You'll still arrive at the same time at your destination as everyone else.

A train/plane is not a workplace, it's purely a method in getting from A to B. If those running businesses saved Euros by sitting in standard/economy class, maybe they wouldn't complain about how big their costs are in their business, and it might help to cut the amount of redundancies in the current climate. If it saves even one job, it's worth it.

Hello On The Move, your real name isn't Barry Kenny by any chance? Rarely have I read such nonsense but it sounds like your reading from the CIE/IE hymn sheet! Who are you to decide that a train is not a workplace? If business people can work while travelling by train (unlike driving) surely that is a major inducement to travel by train. Ther are large sections of society who haven't travelled by rail for decades because CIE/IE operate the policy that you are supporting. Continual messing with catering, non-existence of First Class on many routes all serve to turn away business passengers and others wishing to have a peaceful journey. I am really too bored my your points to continue this arguement....zzzzzz.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... ..

PS If you're not Barry Kenny you shoud apply for his job.