Dunshauglin rail proposal

[losexpectation]

Plan unveiled to re-route rail line to Dunshaughlin
http://www.meathchronicle.ie/articles/1/31141/

any more info on this the actual report etc.

are there less developers on the other side of dunshauglin wanting to get the rail ine passed their estates?

[Colm Moore]

That proposal is not about Dunshauglin, but more about Ratoath. Ratoath residents are much more likely to go from Ratoath to a station east of Dunshauglin, than one west of Dunshauglin.

Cost wise, I suspect both the article and the advocates for this particular proposal are looking with rose tinted glasses as the route is longer, across virgin ground (not an existing alignment with existing bridges) and will have to cross the M3 twice.

It has to be said that the planning for Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Ashbourne and Dunboyne (less so) has been appalling.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Victor

It has to be said that the planning for Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Ashbourne and Dunboyne (less so) has been appalling.

Agreed. Very poor and developer led. LAPs were very late coming or not at all in some cases. Meath CoCo has been the worst of all the GDR LAs.

[losexpectation]

Originally Posted by Victor

That proposal is not about Dunshauglin, but more about Ratoath. Ratoath residents are much more likely to go from Ratoath to a station east of Dunshauglin, than one west of Dunshauglin.

Cost wise, I suspect both the article and the advocates for this particular proposal are looking with rose tinted glasses as the route is longer, across virgin ground (not an existing alignment with existing bridges) and will have to cross the M3 twice.

It has to be said that the planning for Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Ashbourne and Dunboyne (less so) has been appalling.

i not familiar enough with it, but they are claiming they it wil reduce crossings.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by losexpectation

i not familiar enough with it, but they are claiming they it wil reduce crossings.

It reduces crossings compared to the route proposed that went to the east of Ratoath. It is more expensive, longer and requires significantly more engineering work that the route Irish Rail have proposed.

There is a time sensitivity any deviation adds several minutes to the Navan Dublin time bear in mind as things stood in 2005 it was possible to get a bus from Bus Aras and be in Navan in under 60 minutes at rush hour. Train needs to be no more than 50-55 minutes to be competitive. Navan is going to be at least twice the population of Ratoath and Dunshaughlin combined.

Irish Rail's plans already included Dunshaughlin and also access from Trim.

[losexpectation]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

It reduces crossings compared to the route proposed that went to the east of Ratoath.

sorry which one? who proposed that.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by losexpectation

sorry which one? who proposed that.

MCC

[chipper]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

There is a time sensitivity any deviation adds several minutes to the Navan Dublin time bear in mind as things stood in 2005 it was possible to get a bus from Bus Aras and be in Navan in under 60 minutes at rush hour. Train needs to be no more than 50-55 minutes to be competitive. Navan is going to be at least twice the population of Ratoath and Dunshaughlin combined.

Sadly this is not true. I know because I spent all of 2004 and 2005 commuting on the Navan - Dublin bus and there was never any chance of a sub 60 minute trip. Anywhere between 75 and 90 minutes would have been typical for both legs of the journey. Throw in the Navan scheme where the evening arrival is at the opposite end of the town from the morning departure (do you park near the morning stop or the evening one?) and you've got a seriously long journey on, at that time time, horrible buses.

I stuck it for two years and abandoned ship. I have since found that the Navan-Dublin bus route is a far inferior service compared to the Drogheda-Dublin train. I have used the bus twice recently and found the timings have not improved much and are still very unpredicatble from one day to the next due to ever changing Dublin traffic conditions. Bus conditions have improved a lot though with nice new coaches.

[Mark Gleeson]

We had a man on the 6pm on evening at he made Navan for 7pm much to our surprise

[chipper]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

We had a man on the 6pm on evening at he made Navan for 7pm much to our surprise

Ah, maybe at 6pm, but most definitely not during the 16:30 - 17:30 sort of range. Incidently, in 2005 the 6pm to Navan was an old 1990 vintage Dublin Bus! Can you imagine sitting on the top deck of that all the way up the N3?

[Mark Gleeson]

The issue at hand is when the M3 opens it will be full speed the whole way to Navan, at off peak the bus will make it well under an hour, so train needs to be as quick and a round about route is going to kill the time advantage

Fairly sure it was a normal coach

[Navan Junction]

Originally Posted by chipper

Anywhere between 75 and 90 minutes would have been typical for both legs of the journey.

And still is, at the upper end of that range and above being the norm. But Mark's point is valid for that deviation.

The proposal as it has been presented will see 100 hectares developed west of Dunshaughlin which if calculated for Phase 2 as in here, will net €15.9m at todays prices, whilst costing €55m for the version outlined in the Scoping Study. The developers version is about 1km longer than the Scoping Study version and crosses the N3/M3 at a more northerly point than proposed by IÉ, and will probably cost more as result of that extra distance.

It is that worth noting that that €15m levy would be levied anyway if the line stays west of Dunshaughlin. The Scoping Study said that there was no benefit to going East.

A further obvious point is that Ratoath commuters will travel to Pace anyhow as it is a much better road than the road connect Dunshaughlin and Ratoath.

[Colm Moore]

The existing section 29 contribution schemes aren't great. People who do the sensible thing and live next to the station pay the full contribution, but the people living in (relative) middle of nowhere ribbon development and using the park and ride get away without paying any contribution at all

[Navan Junction]

I have it from very good authority that phase 2 levies will be completely different to the very narrow criteria in Phase 1, and will spread at deminishing rates as far as Trim, Kells and Ratoath. They have gone as far as getting legal advice that that will not a be a problem.

Point is west Dunshaughlin will be levied at the full rate either way. The rumour is that it will be deviated west of Dunshaughlin which at a net loss of €40m+ (€55m cost - €15m levies) seems unwise. Particularly as the majority of houses are already west of the town

[sean]

Originally Posted by Victor

The existing section 29 contribution schemes aren't great. People who do the sensible thing and live next to the station pay the full contribution, but the people living in (relative) middle of nowhere ribbon development and using the park and ride get away without paying any contribution at all

They'll be paying Park And Ride charges - and any day they step out of line = €120 declamping fee for NCPS.