[Article] Pay and Display on the way

[zag]

I know that buying a ticket for travel does not guarantee you a seat, it entitles you to carriage.

The difference here is that a parking ticket doesn't have an equivalent distinction between carriage and seating - you can either fit your car into a space or you can't. If they sell me a parking ticket and then can't provide a parking space within the validity period of the ticket then surely there is some failure to provide the services contracted for.

If the ticket was valid for a certain number of stays without limit on the validity then it would be different.

Imagine buying one of those season tickets for a multiplex cinema and turning up in good time for a series of films and being told each time that there were no seats available. At the end of the month your ticket expires and you have received no service. I don't think most people would be happy with this scenario and the parking would be no different. Indeed, I can see what Mark is referring to above - I am sure IE will lose some passengers after people get tired of shelling out for the parking and not getting their space for the best part of the week, and having to go park somewhere else and missing their train for a few weeks. At least some of these people will switch to other transport modes.

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[ThomasJ]

This is what is so key here... people need to know their rights when they park their car in pay parking spots. Its more than just buying the ticket.

The fact that the rules is nowhere to be found is not helping!

[ThomasJ]

From IE's Condition of Carriage

PDF Document: https://www.irishrail.ie/home/ConditionsOfTravel.pdf

19. Conditions relating to parking of motor vehicles
19.1 Motor vehicles may be parked only in places reserved for the parking of cars
and subject to accommodation being available.
19.2 Iarnród Éireann does not undertake to provide a secure or attended car park
and, to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law, neither Iarnród Éireann
nor its employees shall be liable to any person whomsoever for personal
injury suffered while in a car park, or to any person whomsoever for any theft
or loss of, or damage to, vehicles or personal effects or goods therein or
thereon while parked in a car park, even if caused by the negligence of Iarnród
Éireann or its employees.
19.3 Tickets, where applicable, are not transferable and are issued subject to
Iarnród Éireann’s byelaws, conditions and regulations contained in Iarnród
Éireann’s publications and notices.19.4 Season tickets or barrier tokens are valid only for the parking of one motor
vehicle at any one time at the station indicated on the ticket or token and only
in respect of the motor vehicle for which the season ticket or barrier token
was issued. Any change in the registration number of the motor vehicle or
the address of the holder of the season ticket or barrier token must be
advised immediately to the office of issue.
19.5 Season tickets and barrier tokens are the property of Iarnród Éireann and
must be surrendered immediately on expiration. An administrative charge will
be made for season tickets or barrier tokens, which are lost, torn, defaced,
damaged or not surrendered.
19.6 Every person accepting these conditions accepts them on his or her own
behalf and on behalf of all other persons having a proprietary interest in the
motor vehicle.

Of course where to find those publications and notices are another thing.

[ccos]

Once again, the Government and the senior civil servants in the Department of Transport do not care about public transport because they don't have to use it.

Perhaps the Minister for transport should not be allowed to use a car.

I can't support the argument against paying for parking, free parking is one of the greatest contributors to the countrys addiction to cars (along with crap planning).
Proper buses and cycling facilites are the answer not free parking, which incidently is not available widley in Europe, i even have to pay for the privelage to park outside my own house.
Its amazing a pro public transport group like RUI putting so much effort in on behalf of car users, this is probably the hottest thread today, shouldn't this energy be redirected into making having to use a car to the station unnecessary.

Someone used the argument about people with buggys and cycling, well my boy just turned one last week and has already run up hunderds of Kms in a bike seat from when he was 3 months and before that we carried him in a harness while cycling.

[Mark Gleeson]

Point we have been making for over 15 months is car parking is not a sustainable solution, its part of the solution and will be with us for some time

The only way to resolve this is make it possible to use public transport throughout the entire journey

Where is the feeder bus service? Irish Rail and CIE haven't bothered to make any efforts in that department

Given the planning situation many people live such that walking is not feasible

[AndrewMc]

Originally Posted by ccos

Proper buses and cycling facilites are the answer not free parking

Exactly, but they're charging for parking and not providing an alternative. It's completely backwards.

Originally Posted by ccos

Someone used the argument about people with buggys and cycling, well my boy just turned one last week and has already run up hunderds of Kms in a bike seat from when he was 3 months and before that we carried him in a harness while cycling.

In Dublin? I cycled for years in Dublin, and always felt like I was 2 inches from a protracted hospital stay. I'd never dream of taking a child with me.

[tigger1962]

I tried cycling to the station... The roads are so bad out my way that I've decided its way to dangerous! and its not even dark out yet! <RANT>The only way Ministers will ever give a damn is to get them onto public transport instead of getting nice new cars courtesy of the taxpayer and charge them for parking at Govt Buildings. In my time commuting I've only ever seen members of the green party on a train or bus but I suspect they are the whipping boys of the FF govt at the moment. And from emails I've received from our local TD FF don't give a hoot about commuters<END RANT>

That aside... Dundalk Carpark was pretty full yesterday and so where the surrounding streets. At the moment its first come first served such that by 7.15 you have to park in the station... I'm sure the local Council will soon change that though

[ThomasJ]

In terms of the surrounding areas whats happening to those areas already affected should be a wake up call for those areas not yet affected to take action now.

Coolmine residents are having an uphill struggle trying to get this problem sorted and pay parking has not even come in there yet!

In terms of the car park the seven day pass should be at the discretion of the car driver there should not be a period upon them when to use it when quite clearly two of the days the ticket wont be used and there might be days they wont get a space!

I wait for the day to come wheo the car parks are full hopefully we will hear about it!

[Mark]

A friend of mine lives near Coolmine station and knows that a few of his neighbours park in the station car park when they are only 5 mins walk away.

If the likes of full car parks, traffic congestion, pay parking etc. can convince people to leave their car at home then we are moving in the right direction.

There are a **** load of lazy ass people out there.

The likes of shuttle buses and cycle facilities have to be looked at in parallel with convincing people to leave their car at homes but without decent frequency and integrated ticketing it's a dead end.

[ThomasJ]

The likes of shuttle buses and cycle facilities have to be looked at in parallel with convincing people to leave their car at homes but without decent frequency and integrated ticketing it's a dead end.

Agreed, but I think the shuttle bus option should be a last resort. I think that the first option should be to look at to see can the core bus services (such as 39, 27, 46A etc) can be integrated to serve stations by a simple diversion/route change with minimal impact (you'd be suprised at how easy this option can be), these services normally serve the surrounding housing areas so people can travel to the station. The 270 local Dublin 15 route being planned by Dublin Bus is also a good plan linking Blanchardstown sc with dunboyne, littlepace the new major housing estates beside clonee, hartstown, huntstown all with Clonsilla station.

The Problem is if a shuttle bus service is in operation and numbers are not good the service will be pulled. It is less likely that operating a Dublin bus core service via a rail station linking will have this sort of impact. Normally they will also organise alternative arrangements.

[ccos]

In Dublin? I cycled for years in Dublin, and always felt like I was 2 inches from a protracted hospital stay. I'd never dream of taking a child with me.

well maybe its your cycling thats the problem, carrying a child might concentrate your mind a little better.

[ccos]

A friend of mine lives near Coolmine station and knows that a few of his neighbours park in the station car park when they are only 5 mins walk away.

If the likes of full car parks, traffic congestion, pay parking etc. can convince people to leave their car at home then we are moving in the right direction.

There are a **** load of lazy ass people out there.

The likes of shuttle buses and cycle facilities have to be looked at in parallel with convincing people to leave their car at homes but without decent frequency and integrated ticketing it's a dead end.

correct, most people driving to stations now would still do so even if there were alternatives available as long as parking was free, and remember theres no such thing as free parking its just everybody pays for it indirectly when there is no direct charge levied on the user.
Anybody remember free airline catering?

[Mark Gleeson]

Its all about alternatives

If a proper feeder bus system was in place
If there was a safe, well lit and well paved path to the station
If a little bit of cop on was shown to provide more accessible entrances at stations
Proper secure covered space for bikes

Combine that with zero tolerance on non rail users parking in station car parks and you reach a best practice situation

Of course none of this was done, there is the problem, no alternative beyond walking on substandard paths and stations where cars have priorities over passengers

[plant43]

I think the lack of feeder buses is probably down to the lack of co-operation between the different arms of CIE and the licensing department of the DoT.

In an ideal world, each local authority/town council would be responsible for local transport such as feeder bus services. The haphazard way that bus licensing is currently handled in a central location is the ultimate stumbling block I think.

[Mark Gleeson]

Give an example, Balbriggan, town bus every 20 minutes, last bus 19:00. So not much good if you get the 18:40 or later train. Doesn't cover everywhere either.

Balbriggan is the only town with a proper local bus service of all the stations to be hit in this phase. Of course its no good for the crew from Gormanston who drive to Balbriggan to get a massive fare reduction and better service.

Of course no integrated ticketing and no mention of this in the rail timetable

[plant43]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Of course no integrated ticketing and no mention of this in the rail timetable

Most of the places I went to in France didn't have fully integrated ticketing. In the cities, the tickets that worked on the local buses weren't valid for SNCF. And in cases where the TGV station was outside the town centre (Avignon TGV, for example), you were unable to buy a combined TGV + bus ticket to get the bus into the centre.

I think integrated ticketing should be there for cities, but for feeder buses in local towns, I don't think it's feasible.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by tigger1962

I tried cycling to the station... The roads are so bad out my way that I've decided its way to dangerous! and its not even dark out yet! <RANT>The only way Ministers will ever give a damn is to get them onto public transport instead of getting nice new cars courtesy of the taxpayer and charge them for parking at Govt Buildings. In my time commuting I've only ever seen members of the green party on a train or bus but I suspect they are the whipping boys of the FF govt at the moment. And from emails I've received from our local TD FF don't give a hoot about commuters<END RANT>

There is a noticeable problem that people in commuter towns don't vote. So make sure you and your friends and family are registered and vote next time.

Originally Posted by plant43

I think integrated ticketing should be there for cities, but for feeder buses in local towns, I don't think it's feasible.

It is possibly easier in small towns as they often have limited services with flat fares. If Malahide can have it, why can't Donabate?

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by ccos

correct, most people driving to stations now would still do so even if there were alternatives available as long as parking was free, and remember theres no such thing as free parking its just everybody pays for it indirectly when there is no direct charge levied on the user.
Anybody remember free airline catering?

You've hit the nail on the head there. For many, a taxi could be provided, free of charge, but they would still use their cars unless physically prevented from doing so.

LC

[plant43]

I was passing through Skerries car park this morning. It was still as full as ever. A quick glance at a few of the windows showed full compliance with the charges, most people seem to have bought a weekly ticket.

Two interesting things I noted
- The machines have the CIE logo on them (no sign of the IE logo)
- The signs beside the ticket machines state that purchase of a weekly ticket does not guarantee a space

As I was leaving, an NCPS van was pulling into the car park, presumably to check tickets and clamp cars if appropriate.

Seems like most people are rolling over and accepting the charges.

[Mark Gleeson]

It is a CIE operation.

What other option do people have, if there was a better option than the train they would already be using it. If you bought an annual ticket you have no choice really but to stick it out. Come January there might be a real change as most annual tickets run calender year