DARTs, Luas and Dublin bus to be rebranded?

[Mark Gleeson]

People already ask that question

[philip]

I'm really not so sure they do Mark. I mean people beyond here and boards>commuting etc. People are so used to requiring different tickets that they don't question it.

[Colm R]

Philip, you are correct, its in our Psyche. However as a Rail Users Organisation, it is up to us to question it.

Value for Money is going to become a big question in the coming years, and so it should. We've had it good for a long time now, but now we are maturing as an economy. So people and us, and I hope the opposition, will ask questions as to what we have achieved from expenditure.

In the case of the DTA, we can only hope that its more than just a Paint Job and a Photo Op.

If it is a Paint Job, it will look good in 2012 when the election comes around. But what you have to say when the FF TD comes around, and in particular to people living in Meath West, is did you really spend MY money properly?

[Thomas J Stamp]

What is the point of this?

There was a glorious time, back from 1988 till 1992 when all the buses and the DARTS were the same colour. Big bloody deal.

As is usual, here comes Paul Daniels with his magic box and there's nothing in it. It's the same codology as before. Remarkably, the irish indo used a stock picture of the AV's lined up in Dublin Castle with Trasport 21 on their destination displays. Those buses, of course, were't purchased through T21, they were purchased through the fare box.

The ironing of it was delicioius.

Get a proper intigrated system in, with one authority with one board, one chairperson - then waste your time on paint. Why is branding so important when all your doing is publicising three monopolies anyway? What we'll end up with is the same BAC, IE and Connex boards, answering to the same CIE/RPA boards, and somewhere alongside will be the new DTA board. The same happened in 1988 with CIE same happened with the HSE.

Maybe tis wonderful authority will get DASH2 started. Maybe it'll ask why we're blowing millions on an intrgrated ticketing system and gosh even put one in place. No, it's like Douglas Adams and the Golafrinchams. They like the concept of fire, they just havent agreed on the colour of it yet.

[Mark Gleeson]

The DTA have been tasked with is to create a brand for Dublin transport services, we assume that means that means a common logo, common signage and so on

If we look at a city with good transport, say Paris or the Paris region Ile-de-France, transport is mainly SNCF and RATP, do the metro trains share the same livery as the RER trains nope (RATP operate some RER services, SNCF others). Different liveries can in fact be important to distinguish different types of service

If we look at London, they are not repainting the trains on the new London Overground service into the new colours since there are new trains on order and the old ones are not worthy of representing the organisation

Problem with paint is its political show, it provides a tangible and public record that something is happening, but doesn't mean the service is any better, its just like the bus photo, look we go more buses, of course the fact 50 plus sat in a yard in Broadstone for nearly a year due to the Department of Transport is never mentioned

[philip]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The DTA have been tasked with is to create a brand for Dublin transport services, we assume that means that means a common logo, common signage and so on

If we look at a city with good transport, say Paris or the Paris region Ile-de-France, transport is mainly SNCF and RATP, do the metro trains share the same livery as the RER trains nope (RATP operate some RER services, SNCF others). Different liveries can in fact be important to distinguish different types of service

If we look at London, they are not repainting the trains on the new London Overground service into the new colours since there are new trains on order and the old ones are not worthy of representing the organisation

Problem with paint is its political show, it provides a tangible and public record that something is happening, but doesn't mean the service is any better, its just like the bus photo, look we go more buses, of course the fact 50 plus sat in a yard in Broadstone for nearly a year due to the Department of Transport is never mentioned

Indeed there are probably plenty of examples of cities with a multitude of liveries with a decent network. Personally I like the German model:
Local operator is usually same for busses/trams/underground/ferries/cable cars etc. which are generally the same livery while a daughter Deutsche Bahn company runs the S-Bahn which is red nationwide (except S-Bahn Berlin GmbH, which uses a hybrid livery which is red and yellow, yellow being the dominant colour for the local operator, BVG).

German public transport is bloated beyond belief with managers and admin. But it works because they all understand that they are part of a system and must deliver their little bit or it all falls apart.

Berlin has at the top, the VBB (the tariff setting body for Berlin and the state of Brandenburg), below this are the operators BVG, DB Berlin, etc. but of course BVG is a wholly owned company of the city of Berlin! DB Berlin is a wholly owned subsidiary of DB AG which in turn is a wholly owned company of the German government all of which have a distinct board of management/directors (all sounds a bit familiar doesn't it). Now, despite all this they work together and take direction from the VBB. The german minister for transport doesn't stick his oar in at every opportunity and everyone works together. THERE IS NO REASON THIS CAN'T HAPPEN IN DUBLIN if the DTA is backed by strong legislation and money.

[sean]

+1

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by philip

The german minister for transport doesn't stick his oar in at every opportunity and everyone works together. THERE IS NO REASON THIS CAN'T HAPPEN IN DUBLIN if the DTA is backed by strong legislation and money.

Except the DTA will be subject to ministerial direction. The proof of the pudding is how often (or not) it is used.

Originally Posted by weehamster

For example, Luas we have the Red and Green line. Later we'll have (probably) the yellow (lucan), purple (Liffey Jtn, hopefully Finglas) (pick whatever colour you want), the metro has north, west, (maybe south later) and the Dart, A and B (maybe). A simple colour/number code system is needed like you see in Madrid.
http://www.geocities.com/weehamster/Lines.jpg

Numbers are better than colours or letters, less confusion.

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Regardless of the accuracy of the article it makes a solid point that this random changing of colour scheme as is particularly practiced by Dublin Bus is going to cost money, money which of course could be better spent on improving the service, which will actually improve our lot as passengers.

Since the CitySwift / Expresso situation*, DB have only repainted buses about once each in their useful (DB) lives.



* CitySwift and Expresso were created as separate brands to highlight the introduction of QBCs. However, problems arose when buses were moved between services.

[weehamster]

A simple visible DTA logo is all that is needed.

Instead of waisting cash re-painting, there should be the re-naming of the different lines.

For example, Luas we have the Red and Green line. Later we'll have (probably) the yellow (lucan), purple (Liffey Jtn, hopefully Finglas) (pick whatever colour you want), the metro has north, west, (maybe south later) and the Dart, A and B (maybe).

A simple colour/number code system is needed like you see in Madrid.

[eoin]

All this outrage is just stupid. This entire thread is based on the premise that a riciculously inaccurate and poorly researched article in the Independent is true. I entirely agree that government policy, political interference and shirking of responsibility have resulted in the mess that is Dublin's public transport system and the agencies that run it.

But the idea that developing a single Dublin Transport brand is somehow underhand and vote-seeking is ludicrous. People don't vote for Ken Livingstone because the Underground, DLR and London Buses use the same logo. I very much doubt that the DTA is going to demand that public transport providers use a single livery. It would probably generate negative publicity if anything.

A single brand would be excellent. More importantly a single information scheme would be excellent and would encourage uptake of public transport. Yes, the system's a shambles. But that's no reason why people shouldn't be given decent information on how to use what's there. A united brand, website and system for the display of information would be a huge step forward. With integrated ticketing, obviously.

I'm actually quite disappointed by the reaction of RUI committee members in this regard. I thought lack of information was one of RUI's major complaints with Irish Rail.