contested fine to no avail.....

[andyl222]

I've sent an email to my local Councillor John McGinley. I attached all correspondences from Mr. Byrne and myself and asked for mr. Mc Ginley's advice.

[Rushed2nowhere]

Does Coolmine have CCTV? If it does it could potentially be used as evidence to:
a.) Prove that the train left early
b.) That you were standing on the patform at 12.39/12.40

Similary if there is CCTV at Connolly it could be used to prove that after getting off the train you went directly to the desk to purchase a ticket and that you didn't try leaving Connolly without paying for your journey (fare evasion).

Even though I.E. have the law on their sides, in court the judge might let you off due to I.E.'s mistakes.

Another thing is if you could prove that this train was 10 minutes early it would put I.E. in a very embarassing situation and they might drop the charges.

[andyl222]

Originally Posted by Rushed2nowhere

Does Coolmine have CCTV? If it does it could potentially be used as evidence to:
a.) Prove that the train left early
b.) That you were standing on the patform at 12.39/12.40

Similary if there is CCTV at Connolly it could be used to prove that after getting off the train you went directly to the desk to purchase a ticket and that you didn't try leaving Connolly without paying for your journey (fare evasion).

Even though I.E. have the law on their sides, in court the judge might let you off due to I.E.'s mistakes.

Another thing is if you could prove that this train was 10 minutes early it would put I.E. in a very embarassing situation and they might drop the charges.

Thats a good idea, I don't know how long they keep their footage for before formatting the tapes/disks, but if it was available it would be a key piece of evidence for me. Anyone have any idea how long they keep cctv footage for at IE????

[Mark Gleeson]

The on train one, no chance, the level crossing one should be in the region of 28 days and it is recorded

If they are following the best practice http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc...dance/cctv.htm

It depends on the camera positioning they are normally just there to watch the crossing with no attention to the traffic really, only Merrion Gates has extra cameras to catch people, it won't work in Coolmine

For the record you could also ask for the train register entry for train P638 on March 20th, legally IE have to keep that. The register should log the trains times against signals

[Thomas J Stamp]

If there are no incidents I'd be surpriseed if it isnt taped over within two days.

Your greatest difficulty is proving this train was early. Remember, all IE have to do is prove the TVM was working that day, hey presto you're gone.

Even if it was early... Maynooth line.... its hardly as if the next train was at 18.00 was it?

This depends on which Judge you get. Dont be intimidated by Mr Byrnes. You may get a fine or you may get lucky, dont forget District Court Judges get the train too, and suffer the various problems associated with them, god knows they may also have been in a similar situation. This is a point Mr Byrnes should consider when he reads this thread as well as the fact that you're not the usual sort of fare-doging character we find in the District Court.

At this moment i would like to say hello to Rita and Hugh, two of my colleages in the CIE Solicitors Department. Hope you're kepping well.

[andyl222]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

If there are no incidents I'd be surpriseed if it isnt taped over within two days.

Your greatest difficulty is proving this train was early. Remember, all IE have to do is prove the TVM was working that day, hey presto you're gone.

Even if it was early... Maynooth line.... its hardly as if the next train was at 18.00 was it?

This depends on which Judge you get. Dont be intimidated by Mr Byrnes. You may get a fine or you may get lucky, dont forget District Court Judges get the train too, and suffer the various problems associated with them, god knows they may also have been in a similar situation. This is a point Mr Byrnes should consider when he reads this thread as well as the fact that you're not the usual sort of fare-doging character we find in the District Court.

At this moment i would like to say hello to Rita and Hugh, two of my colleages in the CIE Solicitors Department. Hope you're kepping well.

I understand the difficulties I face in proving my case, but I'm not going to back down. I pay as much as anyone else to get the train week in and week out, to be treated like a common cri minal is an indignity I'm not willin g to accept.
I don't see how the operation of the TVM has any bearing on my situation, if the train is early regardless of how many facilities are in place to acquire a ticket, there would not have been any time to get a ticket and board the train. From the start of the dublin bound platform over the footbridge to the ticket office and back again is about 600-700m.

I can acept that there are regular trains on the maynooth line, but I also want to clarify I had an appointment and to miss this particular train would have caused me serious problems with regard to my college situation.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

At this moment i would like to say hello to Rita and Hugh, two of my colleages in the CIE Solicitors Department. Hope you're kepping well.

Ah Stamp, you're mad.

Mark, can you lock the thread off from the CIE server.

These incidents are increasing and its alarming. IEs inconsistancies are the route cause of many problems. I frequently travel on the Kildare line between Sallins and Heuston. Sallins is generally unstaffed. Tickets are usually purchased on the train. In the afternoons there is rarely a checker on board the train so I can't buy a ticket. On arrival at Heuston tickets are not checked. On the return journey in the late evening, I can buy a single ticket from a TVM. This ticket is rarely checked, if ever as the platform gate is unstaffed and there's no checker on board.

Legally, Im supposed to have a ticket for my inward journey. But I cant buy that ticket in Heuston from a TVM. I could go to the ticket office, but at that point, there is no proof that I travelled in on the train, if I decide not to. In general IE make it hard for themselves and their customers. FACT.

My one serious gripe with Mr. Byrnes responses to the OP (who is a dissatisfied customer of IE) is the tone. He is behaving in an arrogant and agressive manner and lacks any sort of customer service skills, while blatantly ignoring the issue of an early train being the cause of the incident in question. My advice is to put it in writing to the line manager, the CEO, politicians and the DOT. Then refuse to pay the fine until all your complaints are addressed and verified in an open and accountable manner. Furthermore does the booth in Connolly on P4, clearly state that its "only" for ticket purchases from unstaffed stations?

[andyl222]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

Ah Stamp, you're mad.

Mark, can you lock the thread off from the CIE server.

These incidents are increasing and its alarming. IEs inconsistancies are the route cause of many problems. I frequently travel on the Kildare line between Sallins and Heuston. Sallins is generally unstaffed. Tickets are usually purchased on the train. In the afternoons there is rarely a checker on board the train so I can't buy a ticket. On arrival at Heuston tickets are not checked. On the return journey in the late evening, I can buy a single ticket from a TVM. This ticket is rarely checked, if ever as the platform gate is unstaffed and there's no checker on board.

Legally, Im supposed to have a ticket for my inward journey. But I cant buy that ticket in Heuston from a TVM. I could go to the ticket office, but at that point, there is no proof that I travelled in on the train, if I decide not to. In general IE make it hard for themselves and their customers. FACT.

My one serious gripe with Mr. Byrnes responses to the OP (who is a dissatisfied customer of IE) is the tone. He is behaving in an arrogant and agressive manner and lacks any sort of customer service skills, while blatantly ignoring the issue of an early train being the cause of the incident in question. My advice is to put it in writing to the line manager, the CEO, politicians and the DOT. Then refuse to pay the fine until all your complaints are addressed and verified in an open and accountable manner. Furthermore does the booth in Connolly on P4, clearly state that its "only" for ticket purchases from unstaffed stations?

The inconsistancies you mention seem to be rife throughout the organisation, its ridiculous to think that a country with such a level of wealth and affluence can still run its rail service with this hamfisted attitude. Rules are rules till they're too difficult to enforce,then they're treated with indifference.

The ticket booth on platform 4.....It's apparently not a ticket booth at all.... hahahahah. as ridiculous as it sounds, Mr. Byrne told me I was unreasonable to believe I could have bought a ticket there after boarding the train in coolmine, so as far as I know its just a booth to fine people. This logic defies me.

I would agree with you in reference to Mr. Byrne's tone throughout our recent correspondence. It would seem as soon as I place a valid argument in front of Mr. Byrne it gets ignored in favour of some more minor point with which he has issue. His attempts to intimidate me with farcical insinuations of illegal activity on my part with regard to using one of his past emails against him is just one example of his ever exemplary customer services technique.

[Thomas J Stamp]

it says "no ticket, come here" honest!!! Like a sign in the Rangers Bar on the Shankill "Celtic supporter? Come here"

[Thomas J Stamp]

Derek, would you give Steevetee a ring, he's feeling very left out in that monestereving thread

[andyl222]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

it says "no ticket, come here" honest!!! Like a sign in the Rangers Bar on the Shankill "Celtic supporter? Come here"

pretty much, it reminds me of that creature,is it an angler fish? the one with the glowing appendage attached to its head, it lures in victims and then devours them. How would IE react if the booth had posters announcing it to be a booth for fining people placed on the front of the counter out of the attendants line of sight......

[Derek Wheeler]

The ticket booth on platform 4.....It's apparently not a ticket booth at all.... hahahahah. as ridiculous as it sounds, Mr. Byrne told me I was unreasonable to believe I could have bought a ticket there after boarding the train in coolmine, so as far as I know its just a booth to fine people. This logic defies me.

But he does say that this facility was afforded to passengers who board at unstaffed stations that have no method of ticket purchase. Yet he claims that the big red sign in connolly says no ticket no travel????? Is Byrne on medication or just plain confused about it all. (legal note: this is a genuine question, not a suggestion or accusation) So what do I do if I board at Broombridge. I can't buy a ticket there. So can I pay at the "tardis", sorry, "booth" in connolly?

Therefore it is very easy for customers to assume that you can purchase at the other end for a variety of reasons. Everthing IE state is locked up in terms and conditions and posters that don't explain exceptions. Are customers now expected to do a crash course in IE terms and conditions? Do the posters mention exceptions to the rule? Are IE using the law to cover the fact that their system is confused, mixed up and lacking in any form of customer focused direction? (its neither an honour system or a totally staffed system) Will they introduce random questioning at ticket offices and TVMs?

Customer: Return to Connolly please.
IE staff: Eh bud. Before I can sell you this ticket, can you tell me what rule 5, section 3, paragraph 7 refers to in the terms and conditions of travel?
Customer: You're having a laugh right?
IE staff: Actually pal, Im not. No answer no ticket. Jaysus thats good innit. Might send that to head office wha?

Andy, push it as far as you think you can tolerate. Perhaps you should contact your local paper. Are the Dublin people or Echo in your area? Or you could try the Kildare post as your from Maynooth? I'd gladly help you on that score.