The Enterprise and the list of shame.

Derek Wheeler · 02-12-2006, 23:43

While we have often mentioned the problems with IEs latest trains on the Cork line (still late, still crocked and still delaying the new timetable) I thought I'd present some info on IEs other branded service, albeit in conjunction with NIR/Translink.

In recent weeks IE have been running radio ads for the Enterprise service, promoting the journey time of "just over 2 hours", "the airconditioned coaches" and the "on-board catering". Overall it sounds like a decent alternative to driving, unless you actually drive, or are familiar with the train service. So, as it annoyed me listening to ads for a service that is years behind the European standard and gobbled up lots of EU money in the process, I thought about my journies on it and various threads I'd read on other forums about the problems with it. Therefore I can lay out a shameful list of failures with the Enterprise service over the last 12 months.

1. On a total of 36 days, non-Enterprise trains were used as replacements due to mechanical failure. This meant that all the benefits of the advertised train were non-existant to the user.

2. A further 8 days of service were affected due to mid-journey failures of the Enterprise trains.

3. A total of 12 days included serious delays of up to 1 hour or more.

4. 6 days of disruption were caused by security alerts, which are not the fault of the rail companies involved.

Therefore, if we leave out the security delays, a total of 44 days out of the last 12 months saw substandard replacements of this apparent premium service. A further 12 days saw serious delays. So without security alerts a total of 56 days out of the last 12 months (approx. 15% of operational days)saw disruption to the Enterprise service. My statistics in front of me show that not a single calendar month passes without a problem on this service. In fact there are examples of multiple problems within the same month. For example in March of this year, there were 6 days of problems between the 18th and 31st, all of which were due to mechanical failure of the Enterprise trains.

This service is a shambles and current advertising of it, is seriously ill-advised or perhaps an attempt by IE to try and instill confidence in it, because the drive time to Belfast is very competitive and is about to get better with the Dundalk Bypass - Newry N1/A1 link road. Add to that the forthcoming upgrade of the last single carraigeway section of the A1 and it spells disaster for the ever failing Enterprise. A service that is mediocre when it operates efficiently.

Thomas J Stamp · 03-12-2006, 22:47

And the ride isnt that good either. Just wait till they stick on the ex-Cork City Gold Carraiges, which are older and better.

Maybe thats what the ads are about!

empire · 03-12-2006, 22:49

Yep gotta agree there I used to use this 'service' quite alot but haven't now for a long time. I think how it has run down is inexcusable. Even with the extra time in the timetable the Enterprise is lucky if it does Dublin - Belfast in 2hrs 20 mins. Most trains are only busy with cross-border traffic when there is an offer on.

The 40mph restriction from Lisburn to Moira is rediculous. Can you imagine any other premier Intercity line in the world being left like this for over a year now?

On the other hand I recently took a rugby special to Dublin on a C3K and the difference in journey time was amazing.

Mark Gleeson · 03-12-2006, 22:52

You really want to know whats interesting?

First 3 months 2006

Dublin Belfast 90.6% on time within 10 minutes
Dublin Cork 89.79% on time within 10 minutes

And that was before Mk4 mania hit.

The only reason Derek has the list is since Translink publish every delay online without fail, current Dublin Cork would shock you. One thing I will credit IE and NIR for is actually having a backup train on call to step in to keep it moving, which only goes to prove how bad it really is on enterprise, now the C3K rules its a great passenger train lovely interior that hides the real mess and makes the numbers up

Most of the blame lies with NIR in terms of track and train maintenance, Moria is not going to be fixed anytime soon

You are entitled to a 25% refund after 30 minutes on enterprise

Mark Hennessy · 03-12-2006, 22:58

Did Belfast - Dublin today on the bus for €8 single. Journey time of 2hrs 40 compares quite well to the published enterprise times.
Brand new coaches with lovely comfy seats and plenty of leg room.
Might not be suitable for business users etc but for the casual punters like myself its not a bad option.

empire · 03-12-2006, 23:03

Yep the C3K is some machine when given the right conditions. It is seriously quick up to about 70mph and even after then gets up to 90mph very fast. Just a pity they are a wee bit unreliable sometimes.

Ah well sure when the new road is finished it will be Belfast to Dublin in 90 Mins for about £10 of petrol.. and the train will be history.

CSL · 04-12-2006, 16:19

There's only a couple of slow bits left on that road to belfast - i.e. Dundalk-Newry and it's not that bad at all

plus the fact that Belfast Central is not particularly 'Central'

I have a 2 in 5 breakdown record on my last 5 Enterprise trips .

moyrusk · 07-12-2006, 22:08

I have noticed on this and other boards a constant stream of criticism of the Enterprise - much of it warrented. What I cannot understand with many of the contributors to the board is the automatic assumption that potential or existing Enterprise customers (or indeed those on any other line) will want to drive rather than take the train - due to the latter becoming slower or unreliable. You are all entirely missing the point of the train per-se; For One, the train, regardless of it's faults, does not have to contend with "real" traffic congestion (bar a few minutes sitting outside Connolly or Great Victoria St) and two, the train eliminates the sheer unrelenting stress of driving (as we know it these days)

For these reasons alone, the Enterprise (and others) will never be at an end - Quite simply, a sizable minority of travellers out there do not want to drive unless absolutely neccessary - myself among them

Now put that in your pipes

Mark Gleeson · 07-12-2006, 22:12

I don't have a drivers license and to be honest its one breakdown every 6,500 miles or basically 25+ round trips its not really that bad problem

Problem is if it breaks it breaks quite badly

It could be a whole lot better, cleaner, faster etc

Thomas J Stamp · 07-12-2006, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by moyrusk

I have noticed on this and other boards a constant stream of criticism of the Enterprise - much of it warrented. What I cannot understand with many of the contributors to the board is the automatic assumption that potential or existing Enterprise customers (or indeed those on any other line) will want to drive rather than take the train - due to the latter becoming slower or unreliable. You are all entirely missing the point of the train per-se; For One, the train, regardless of it's faults, does not have to contend with "real" traffic congestion (bar a few minutes sitting outside Connolly or Great Victoria St) and two, the train eliminates the sheer unrelenting stress of driving (as we know it these days)

For these reasons alone, the Enterprise (and others) will never be at an end - Quite simply, a sizable minority of travellers out there do not want to drive unless absolutely neccessary - myself among them

Now put that in your pipes

Me too, but remember that the train competes with the cars in the DoT budget as well. They have to justify the spend vis a vis motorway expendature. After all, IE know this, that's why they are only now seriously looking at 200kph trains to Cork, if it wasnt for the motorway syetsm competing with them they would never in a million years look at it.

markpb · 08-12-2006, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by moyrusk

I have noticed on this and other boards a constant stream of criticism of the Enterprise - much of it warrented. What I cannot understand with many of the contributors to the board is the automatic assumption that potential or existing Enterprise customers (or indeed those on any other line) will want to drive rather than take the train

From my personal experience, the bus is more reliable, just as comfortable, sometimes faster and usually 1/4 of the price of the Enterprise. They're pretty convincing arguments in my book

moyrusk · 10-12-2006, 00:54

Having just spent the best part of 8 hours sitting on bus visiting IKEA in Glasgow, during which the drivers got hopelessly lost - I can only say that the train WILL ALWAYS be the superior form of transport (including the car) in that the train cannot get lost, does not have to negotiate traffic and is usually physically quicker. I would suggest that anyone wanting to see proper transportation in action should viast Scotland - then again I have noticed that many "southern" members seem (bizarelly) to view Scotland and NI as somehow "english" - SO NOT TRUE IN EVERY WAY

In particular Scotland is reopening more mile / kms of completely abandoned line than we could hope for in a lifetime. Check it out - and don't be so narrow minded - said in the most polite way

Moyrusk

Derek Wheeler · 10-12-2006, 01:51

Ah jaysus Moyrusk, don't leave us hanging on the back end of your last message. Spread your experiences across the board. Tells us of things in Scotland and NI and compare.

As for the Enterprise, its crap in general. But "southern" folk do love the CK3s and Translinks general approach to things.

Don't panic. Mark Gleeson and I went up during the summer to check a few things out and we were impressed.

What did you buy in Ikea and is it a decent place?

moyrusk · 12-12-2006, 12:25

Derek

I'm a frequent visitor to Scotland usually for pleasure, great country and impressive in it's way to plan and carry through projects. On the rail front I've a list of current projects each on substantial. Bear in mind that away from the central belt (Glasgow / Edinburgh / Dundee) Scotland is very, very sparsely populated, much less so than here. So here goes with the rail aspects;

By the end of 2006, Transport Scotland's expenditure on public transport is planned to reach £1 billion per year. Much of this funding has been allocated to major rail projects which include;

Larkhall to Milngavie (delivered December 2005).
Stirling - Alloa - Kincardine (to be completed during 2007).
Scottish Borders Railway (Parliamentary power secured in 2006).
Glasgow Airport Rail Link ( GARL). - Bills in Parliament for powers to construct.
Edinburgh Airport Rail Link ( EARL) - Bills in Parliament for powers to construct.
Airdrie to Bathgate Rail Link. - Bills in Parliament for powers to construct.

Bear in mind, most of these will involve actual re-construction of abandoned lines - on in particular (the Borders line) would bear comparison with rebuilding the Portadown - Omagh line, in length at least !!

As for IKEA, great spot, cheap, stylish and durable furniture - hugely popular with northerners particularly round Belfast as Glasgow is relatively easy to get to by comparison with say Cork. This time around we've kitted out a child's bedroom - all courtesy of (map adverse) Ulsterbus

Colm Donoghue · 12-12-2006, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I don't have a drivers license and to be honest its one breakdown every 6,500 miles or basically 25+ round trips its not really that bad problem

Problem is if it breaks it breaks quite badly

It could be a whole lot better, cleaner, faster etc

If you had a car that broke down every 6500miles, it would be a pos and taken to the scrapyard.

That to me is appalling. I'd nearly expect to do 6500 miles on a pushbike before it breaks down, and with any maintenance it wouldn't breakdown.

If planes had that poor reliability, ryanair'd have each plane grounded with mechanical failure every 8 or 9 days. (25 sectors)

I'd hope you've left a zero out mark.

ccos · 12-12-2006, 17:05

Quote:

originally by Colmd
That to me is appalling. I'd nearly expect to do 6500 miles on a pushbike before it breaks down, and with any maintenance it wouldn't breakdown.

I've just clocked 2,000 Kms on my brand new push bike total of 2 punctures so far and once the derailer broke when the chain came off and jammed.

Mark Gleeson · 13-12-2006, 09:39

On a good week Enterprise will make 15,000km per failure, in comparision the 29000 railcar will make 80,000km, DART units in there day made 250,000km

Its important to note a failure is any issue on train which leads to delay of more than a few minutes not just a sit down

byrneeo · 02-04-2007, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

You really want to know whats interesting?

First 3 months 2006

Dublin Belfast 90.6% on time within 10 minutes
Dublin Cork 89.79% on time within 10 minutes

And that was before Mk4 mania hit.

The only reason Derek has the list is since Translink publish every delay online without fail, current Dublin Cork would shock you. One thing I will credit IE and NIR for is actually having a backup train on call to step in to keep it moving, which only goes to prove how bad it really is on enterprise, now the C3K rules its a great passenger train lovely interior that hides the real mess and makes the numbers up

Most of the blame lies with NIR in terms of track and train maintenance, Moria is not going to be fixed anytime soon

You are entitled to a 25% refund after 30 minutes on enterprise

So if my train from dublin to portadown (or portadown to dublin) is 30 minutes or more late into destination, i can claim back 25% of half my student return ticket price (€29, so 25% of €14.50, so €3.63)? Oh wait... it's hardly worth my while.

Mark Gleeson · 02-04-2007, 18:44

Yes but you would get €4

02-12-2006, 23:43	#1
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	The Enterprise and the list of shame. While we have often mentioned the problems with IEs latest trains on the Cork line (still late, still crocked and still delaying the new timetable) I thought I'd present some info on IEs other branded service, albeit in conjunction with NIR/Translink. In recent weeks IE have been running radio ads for the Enterprise service, promoting the journey time of "just over 2 hours", "the airconditioned coaches" and the "on-board catering". Overall it sounds like a decent alternative to driving, unless you actually drive, or are familiar with the train service. So, as it annoyed me listening to ads for a service that is years behind the European standard and gobbled up lots of EU money in the process, I thought about my journies on it and various threads I'd read on other forums about the problems with it. Therefore I can lay out a shameful list of failures with the Enterprise service over the last 12 months. 1. On a total of 36 days, non-Enterprise trains were used as replacements due to mechanical failure. This meant that all the benefits of the advertised train were non-existant to the user. 2. A further 8 days of service were affected due to mid-journey failures of the Enterprise trains. 3. A total of 12 days included serious delays of up to 1 hour or more. 4. 6 days of disruption were caused by security alerts, which are not the fault of the rail companies involved. Therefore, if we leave out the security delays, a total of 44 days out of the last 12 months saw substandard replacements of this apparent premium service. A further 12 days saw serious delays. So without security alerts a total of 56 days out of the last 12 months (approx. 15% of operational days)saw disruption to the Enterprise service. My statistics in front of me show that not a single calendar month passes without a problem on this service. In fact there are examples of multiple problems within the same month. For example in March of this year, there were 6 days of problems between the 18th and 31st, all of which were due to mechanical failure of the Enterprise trains. This service is a shambles and current advertising of it, is seriously ill-advised or perhaps an attempt by IE to try and instill confidence in it, because the drive time to Belfast is very competitive and is about to get better with the Dundalk Bypass - Newry N1/A1 link road. Add to that the forthcoming upgrade of the last single carraigeway section of the A1 and it spells disaster for the ever failing Enterprise. A service that is mediocre when it operates efficiently.

03-12-2006, 22:47	#2
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	And the ride isnt that good either. Just wait till they stick on the ex-Cork City Gold Carraiges, which are older and better. Maybe thats what the ads are about! __________________ We are the passengers

03-12-2006, 22:52	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	You really want to know whats interesting? First 3 months 2006 Dublin Belfast 90.6% on time within 10 minutes Dublin Cork 89.79% on time within 10 minutes And that was before Mk4 mania hit. The only reason Derek has the list is since Translink publish every delay online without fail, current Dublin Cork would shock you. One thing I will credit IE and NIR for is actually having a backup train on call to step in to keep it moving, which only goes to prove how bad it really is on enterprise, now the C3K rules its a great passenger train lovely interior that hides the real mess and makes the numbers up Most of the blame lies with NIR in terms of track and train maintenance, Moria is not going to be fixed anytime soon You are entitled to a 25% refund after 30 minutes on enterprise Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 03-12-2006 at 23:23.

07-12-2006, 22:08	#8
moyrusk New to the board Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5	Why anyone would use the train I have noticed on this and other boards a constant stream of criticism of the Enterprise - much of it warrented. What I cannot understand with many of the contributors to the board is the automatic assumption that potential or existing Enterprise customers (or indeed those on any other line) will want to drive rather than take the train - due to the latter becoming slower or unreliable. You are all entirely missing the point of the train per-se; For One, the train, regardless of it's faults, does not have to contend with "real" traffic congestion (bar a few minutes sitting outside Connolly or Great Victoria St) and two, the train eliminates the sheer unrelenting stress of driving (as we know it these days) For these reasons alone, the Enterprise (and others) will never be at an end - Quite simply, a sizable minority of travellers out there do not want to drive unless absolutely neccessary - myself among them Now put that in your pipes

07-12-2006, 22:12	#9
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	I don't have a drivers license and to be honest its one breakdown every 6,500 miles or basically 25+ round trips its not really that bad problem Problem is if it breaks it breaks quite badly It could be a whole lot better, cleaner, faster etc Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 07-12-2006 at 22:14.

03-12-2006, 22:49	#3
empire Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	Yep gotta agree there I used to use this 'service' quite alot but haven't now for a long time. I think how it has run down is inexcusable. Even with the extra time in the timetable the Enterprise is lucky if it does Dublin - Belfast in 2hrs 20 mins. Most trains are only busy with cross-border traffic when there is an offer on. The 40mph restriction from Lisburn to Moira is rediculous. Can you imagine any other premier Intercity line in the world being left like this for over a year now? On the other hand I recently took a rugby special to Dublin on a C3K and the difference in journey time was amazing.

03-12-2006, 22:58	#5
Mark Hennessy Membership Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Maynooth Posts: 1,116	Did Belfast - Dublin today on the bus for €8 single. Journey time of 2hrs 40 compares quite well to the published enterprise times. Brand new coaches with lovely comfy seats and plenty of leg room. Might not be suitable for business users etc but for the casual punters like myself its not a bad option.

03-12-2006, 23:03	#6
empire Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	Yep the C3K is some machine when given the right conditions. It is seriously quick up to about 70mph and even after then gets up to 90mph very fast. Just a pity they are a wee bit unreliable sometimes. Ah well sure when the new road is finished it will be Belfast to Dublin in 90 Mins for about £10 of petrol.. and the train will be history.

04-12-2006, 16:19	#7
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	There's only a couple of slow bits left on that road to belfast - i.e. Dundalk-Newry and it's not that bad at all plus the fact that Belfast Central is not particularly 'Central' I have a 2 in 5 breakdown record on my last 5 Enterprise trips .

10-12-2006, 00:54	#12
moyrusk New to the board Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5	Having just spent the best part of 8 hours sitting on bus visiting IKEA in Glasgow, during which the drivers got hopelessly lost - I can only say that the train WILL ALWAYS be the superior form of transport (including the car) in that the train cannot get lost, does not have to negotiate traffic and is usually physically quicker. I would suggest that anyone wanting to see proper transportation in action should viast Scotland - then again I have noticed that many "southern" members seem (bizarelly) to view Scotland and NI as somehow "english" - SO NOT TRUE IN EVERY WAY In particular Scotland is reopening more mile / kms of completely abandoned line than we could hope for in a lifetime. Check it out - and don't be so narrow minded - said in the most polite way Moyrusk

10-12-2006, 01:51	#13
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Ah jaysus Moyrusk, don't leave us hanging on the back end of your last message. Spread your experiences across the board. Tells us of things in Scotland and NI and compare. As for the Enterprise, its crap in general. But "southern" folk do love the CK3s and Translinks general approach to things. Don't panic. Mark Gleeson and I went up during the summer to check a few things out and we were impressed. What did you buy in Ikea and is it a decent place?

12-12-2006, 12:25	#14
moyrusk New to the board Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5	Enterprise & scotland Derek I'm a frequent visitor to Scotland usually for pleasure, great country and impressive in it's way to plan and carry through projects. On the rail front I've a list of current projects each on substantial. Bear in mind that away from the central belt (Glasgow / Edinburgh / Dundee) Scotland is very, very sparsely populated, much less so than here. So here goes with the rail aspects; By the end of 2006, Transport Scotland's expenditure on public transport is planned to reach £1 billion per year. Much of this funding has been allocated to major rail projects which include; Larkhall to Milngavie (delivered December 2005). Stirling - Alloa - Kincardine (to be completed during 2007). Scottish Borders Railway (Parliamentary power secured in 2006). Glasgow Airport Rail Link ( GARL). - Bills in Parliament for powers to construct. Edinburgh Airport Rail Link ( EARL) - Bills in Parliament for powers to construct. Airdrie to Bathgate Rail Link. - Bills in Parliament for powers to construct. Bear in mind, most of these will involve actual re-construction of abandoned lines - on in particular (the Borders line) would bear comparison with rebuilding the Portadown - Omagh line, in length at least !! As for IKEA, great spot, cheap, stylish and durable furniture - hugely popular with northerners particularly round Belfast as Glasgow is relatively easy to get to by comparison with say Cork. This time around we've kitted out a child's bedroom - all courtesy of (map adverse) Ulsterbus

13-12-2006, 09:39	#17
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	On a good week Enterprise will make 15,000km per failure, in comparision the 29000 railcar will make 80,000km, DART units in there day made 250,000km Its important to note a failure is any issue on train which leads to delay of more than a few minutes not just a sit down

02-04-2007, 18:44	#19
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Yes but you would get €4

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