Customers or Passengers, there is a difference

RHanaway · 27-03-2007, 09:47

Last night the 8:45 Enterprise service left promptly on time, wonderful I sat in the dining carriage having a beer and reading a book. It is fair to say that I was happy enough, this changed in an instant as the train stopped in Gormanstown. We were told that a train had broken down on the line and we may be an hour or more, this was at 9:05. Things could be worse I thought, I was relaxed with a beer and book and so was content enough. But hang on, it's not good enough that we were stuck on the train, but IE in their infinite wisdom decided to shut the dining carriage. I live in Drogheda and so at this time several of us booked a taxi to take us home. And so I arrived home at 10:30.
This morning at 8:20 at Drogheda station an announcement proclaimed that the Enterprise would be 25 minutes late. For me this isn't a big deal as a train leaves at 8:30 for Pearse, so like a fool I ran across the platform to the 8:30 train, it was then announced that the 8:20 would be 5 minutes late, it then pulled up straight away.
So I was late home last night and late for work this morning.
I thoroughly agree with IEs description of the users of their trains as passengers, no business would treat a customer in such a fashion.

Mark Gleeson · 27-03-2007, 10:28

The 20:45 (and 19:00) are staffed by Belfast based staff. If the train suffers a delay of more than 1 hour the trolley is meant to be sent out with free tea and coffee. That may have resulted in closing the dinning car shop. Free tea and coffee was given out on the 20:45 to Belfast last night according to other reports that reached us though it would depend on where you where on the train how long it took to get to you. The train was stopped at a platform in Gormanston and the doors where unlocked.

The cause of the delays was 18:15 Pearse Drogheda which failed with a brake related fault near Laytown. The 20:00 Drogheda Pearse (which is the return of the 18:15 service) failed as well near Laytown. A spare train was used for that service to cover for the broken train, the spare was probably the railcar booked for maintenance that day.

Odds on two trains failing same place same day are astronomical. There is very little they could have done to prevent it, we have to accept mechanical devices will break and to Irish Rail's credit the primary railcar fleet is the most reliable in Europe with something in the region of 50,000 miles per 5 minute technical delay, UK and NIR struggle to get over 15,000. End result is when it goes wrong it goes badly wrong

If a enterprise service is delayed by more than 30 minutes you are entitled to 25% of the equivalent single fare back, 50% for 60 minutes and 100% for 90 minutes. If you have a annual ticket its the face value divided a number in the region of 450 * the %age and that is issued as a docket which can be exchanged for cash.

Neither NIR or IE are in any hurry to tell you about this http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...hp#their_fault

The correct term is passenger since it implies you are stuck on the train, customer implies you have some class of choice

This morning there was chaos owing to a track fault in Dublin city. If that had not been fixed the 6:50 from Belfast would have terminated in Drogheda. There is a continuing issue of incorrect announcements concerning southbound enterprise trains at Drogheda, we don't know why but it is being looked into

Colm Donoghue · 27-03-2007, 10:54

The odds of the train failing were reduced by the same train failing in the same place for the same service two days in a row a couple of weeks ago though.

Mark Gleeson · 27-03-2007, 11:10

That was in Pearse though and not for 3 hours. The 18:15 has some weird issues.

If this was the enterprise which had failed we would be quick to start pointing fingers as both IE and NIR have not put in the effort to really sort it out, but it wasn't it was the award winning Drogheda maintenance crew who have delivered a serious reduction in failures and in doing so provided an extra 2400 capacity at peak

We don't have all the information but if only one train had failed things would have been a lot easier but both tracks where blocked in the same place which means you can't go round also means dividing resources to fix two trains. We will have to wait to find out exactly what went wrong.

20:45 passengers seem to have been dealt with well, that can't be said of those on other trains who where left stuck between stations with no information

tigger1962 · 27-03-2007, 15:45

I was on that train this morning.. as per usual it was 5-10minutes late at Dundalk. We were told that there were signalling problems at clontarf road but we ended up only 2 minutes late at Connolly. There were no announcements of delays on the train but we were warned at the station that there may be delays. Since xmas there has been a noticeable lack of good service withthe enterprise service in comparison to the pre xmas service... well excpet for the 16.50 service stopping in Dundalk... a funny think aboutthat service today is that we got delayed at the q because someone rushed off to say that all 1st class seats were taken with prebooked passengers and not to allow any other ticket holders on to 1st class

not that it bothered me much not travelling first class!

27-03-2007, 09:47	#1
RHanaway New to the board Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13	Customers or Passengers, there is a difference Last night the 8:45 Enterprise service left promptly on time, wonderful I sat in the dining carriage having a beer and reading a book. It is fair to say that I was happy enough, this changed in an instant as the train stopped in Gormanstown. We were told that a train had broken down on the line and we may be an hour or more, this was at 9:05. Things could be worse I thought, I was relaxed with a beer and book and so was content enough. But hang on, it's not good enough that we were stuck on the train, but IE in their infinite wisdom decided to shut the dining carriage. I live in Drogheda and so at this time several of us booked a taxi to take us home. And so I arrived home at 10:30. This morning at 8:20 at Drogheda station an announcement proclaimed that the Enterprise would be 25 minutes late. For me this isn't a big deal as a train leaves at 8:30 for Pearse, so like a fool I ran across the platform to the 8:30 train, it was then announced that the 8:20 would be 5 minutes late, it then pulled up straight away. So I was late home last night and late for work this morning. I thoroughly agree with IEs description of the users of their trains as passengers, no business would treat a customer in such a fashion.

27-03-2007, 10:28	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The 20:45 (and 19:00) are staffed by Belfast based staff. If the train suffers a delay of more than 1 hour the trolley is meant to be sent out with free tea and coffee. That may have resulted in closing the dinning car shop. Free tea and coffee was given out on the 20:45 to Belfast last night according to other reports that reached us though it would depend on where you where on the train how long it took to get to you. The train was stopped at a platform in Gormanston and the doors where unlocked. The cause of the delays was 18:15 Pearse Drogheda which failed with a brake related fault near Laytown. The 20:00 Drogheda Pearse (which is the return of the 18:15 service) failed as well near Laytown. A spare train was used for that service to cover for the broken train, the spare was probably the railcar booked for maintenance that day. Odds on two trains failing same place same day are astronomical. There is very little they could have done to prevent it, we have to accept mechanical devices will break and to Irish Rail's credit the primary railcar fleet is the most reliable in Europe with something in the region of 50,000 miles per 5 minute technical delay, UK and NIR struggle to get over 15,000. End result is when it goes wrong it goes badly wrong If a enterprise service is delayed by more than 30 minutes you are entitled to 25% of the equivalent single fare back, 50% for 60 minutes and 100% for 90 minutes. If you have a annual ticket its the face value divided a number in the region of 450 * the %age and that is issued as a docket which can be exchanged for cash. Neither NIR or IE are in any hurry to tell you about this http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...hp#their_fault The correct term is passenger since it implies you are stuck on the train, customer implies you have some class of choice This morning there was chaos owing to a track fault in Dublin city. If that had not been fixed the 6:50 from Belfast would have terminated in Drogheda. There is a continuing issue of incorrect announcements concerning southbound enterprise trains at Drogheda, we don't know why but it is being looked into Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 27-03-2007 at 10:34.

27-03-2007, 11:10	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	That was in Pearse though and not for 3 hours. The 18:15 has some weird issues. If this was the enterprise which had failed we would be quick to start pointing fingers as both IE and NIR have not put in the effort to really sort it out, but it wasn't it was the award winning Drogheda maintenance crew who have delivered a serious reduction in failures and in doing so provided an extra 2400 capacity at peak We don't have all the information but if only one train had failed things would have been a lot easier but both tracks where blocked in the same place which means you can't go round also means dividing resources to fix two trains. We will have to wait to find out exactly what went wrong. 20:45 passengers seem to have been dealt with well, that can't be said of those on other trains who where left stuck between stations with no information Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 27-03-2007 at 11:15.

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27-03-2007, 10:54	#3
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	The odds of the train failing were reduced by the same train failing in the same place for the same service two days in a row a couple of weeks ago though.

27-03-2007, 15:45	#5
tigger1962 Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kilcurry Posts: 501	I was on that train this morning.. as per usual it was 5-10minutes late at Dundalk. We were told that there were signalling problems at clontarf road but we ended up only 2 minutes late at Connolly. There were no announcements of delays on the train but we were warned at the station that there may be delays. Since xmas there has been a noticeable lack of good service withthe enterprise service in comparison to the pre xmas service... well excpet for the 16.50 service stopping in Dundalk... a funny think aboutthat service today is that we got delayed at the q because someone rushed off to say that all 1st class seats were taken with prebooked passengers and not to allow any other ticket holders on to 1st class not that it bothered me much not travelling first class!