The Shuttle Bus Service in Celbridge

[chrishall_ie]

Recently I've been having quite a few problems with the (lack of) service provided by a local company to and from the Hazelhatch train station.

I got onto my local TD (Emmet Stagg), and asked him to look into this matter on my behalf.

Here is the attached PDF that Emmet Stagg replied to me with.

I see it as a small victory...

[Mark Gleeson]

Don't get excited politcans are the only people who will get a answer from Lynch after all he is a politcal appointee

Bear in mind we have a list several pages long of issues on the Kildare line, loads of promises from the very managers Lynch refers to yet very little progress

[Mark Gleeson]

Example

Last week a question was tabled to Minister Cullen concerning a certain rail service

The Minister has Dail privilege, what he said beared no resemblance to what was going on, basically it was factually incorrect and we can prove that

There is a cosy cartel of Lynch/DoT/IE everyone is telling the others all is great and they don't bother to check.

[chrishall_ie]

I get your point - thats fair enough.

but if you put people off like this, saying that its pointless, then we're not going to get anywhere.

This might well have been a waste of time, but the more of us who are doing this will help to force the issue.

Personally, I'll keep on at this until it improves.

[Mark Gleeson]

The whole political gig has delivered zlich. IE tell the DoT what the service levels and standards are, the DoT take it as gospel, no matter since the service agreement is not legally binding

They are other effective ways to make the case eg http://forum.platform11.org/showpost...89&postcount=6 Several hundred will see that. We have been plugging away at Sunday service on the Kildare line and after a false start Dec 2005 its now in place

You can meet the managers in Heuston every now and then, if you are really pissed off you can ring the office responsible 01 703 4499

We are preparing a list of election demands all seeking improved accountabilty (the DoT can't tell IE when to run the trains) and standards in accessibilty, it won't go down well with most politicans but then you will see the truth

[Mel]

I think Chris has a point there - as a new user to this site it is kind of off- putting being told that you can't make a difference no matter what you do and that only the 'site' can get anything done. I think Chris is to be applauded for raising the issue with his local representative and I shall consider doing the same myself.

[2Funki4Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Mel

I think Chris has a point there - as a new user to this site it is kind of off- putting being told that you can't make a difference no matter what you do and that only the 'site' can get anything done. I think Chris is to be applauded for raising the issue with his local representative and I shall consider doing the same myself.

Well if it encourages other people to complain and get involved it can only be a good thing. It's very easy to get dis-illusioned and feel like giving up, but if everyone gives up there's not even a minor chance of things getting done - there wouldn't even be a p11 or any rail user groups if people got disheartened every time promises weren't kept!

Everyone chipping away is better than nothing - and writing is much better than phoning or meeting the managers, at least you have an indisputable record of exactly what was said.

Do any of the Rail User Groups cover your Hazelhatch so you could bring it their attention too?

[Mark Gleeson]

We support anyone who takes a positive effort to try to get things changed I would caution however that very very rarely there is a positive outcome as IE will find a way to talk themselves out of the problem and put a spin on it. Thats why the press office has doubled its staff in the last 2 years. Don't get your hopes up, its not the first complaint about the bus in Hazelhatch or Sallins nor will it be the last. Its been discussed at public meetings with Irish Rail management. Note the letter promises nothing, in this case you are better advised to write to Dick Fearn the Chief Exec of IE unlike Lynch he actually has a say in the operations of Irish Rail

If the users of Hazelhatch want to form a user group give us a call and we can provide you a whole lot of help, organising into a group will result in much better results and IE will bend over backwards to talk since they are honestly terrified that you might actually cause trouble

The key point to all this is there is no legal obligation on Irish Rail to listen it its passengers, no framework, ombudsman etc to deal with complaints. Outwardly they say there is but there is not, that means you have to resort to some interesting approaches to take Irish Rail on.

Question is to the politicians will you force IE to be accountable in law for there service? If they actually wanted to make a difference this would be in place and things would be so much easier, there is a exclusion on transport in the sales and supply of goods act, most people don't know that

As 2Funki4Wheelz has pointed out this can be a very disillusioning experience but you need to stick with it and preferably as a group since you get much more bargaining ability

[Derek Wheeler]

First of all, welcome to the forum Chris.

I understand your elation on what you have achieved, well done. But I feel I must articulate what Mark Gleeson was trying to say.

For over four years P11 has been communicating with politicians on a range of matters. In 2004 out "extend the DART" site started to bombard TDs in the Dublin, Louth and Kildare areas with emails from people who wanted it to happen. We ran a media campaign to support it. The plan was already drafted by IE and included the extension of the DART to Kildare town and Drogheda. Some TDs, which I won't name requested that their names be removed from it as they were sick of getting the campaign email. In 2005 DART extensions to Balbriggan and Hazelhatch were announced under Transport 21. Our lobbying of Kildare and Louth TDs failed. Now I certainly don't hold this up as a defense of anything Mark said, but it highlights that concise campaigns made directly to TDs doesn't always work.

Over the past 12 months we have worked with a few user groups. We offered advice and then observed their progress. From a P11 experience we have witnessed many promises from IE and a very poor net rate of return. In fact over the years we have attempted to promote, suggest etc many initiatives to IE, none of which came to anything. TDs failed to deliver also.

In the early days of P11 we were known as being very militant. We received much criticism for it. However we filled a lot of column inches in the print media and raised the profile of many issues as a result. By 2005 we had started to engage more with IE, instead of attack, but the false promises came creeping back into the equation. We have learned now that if you get issues into the media (with or without a politicians support) results tend to be more forthcoming. There is nothing like bad publicity for IE, to spur them into action. It has also been proven that if some issues appear on our forum, they are fixed. The CIE group of websites are the number one visitor to the P11 forum. We have the stats to back it up.

In saying all of this, we encourage everyone to write to IE or their local TD in relation to rail issues. However we do realise and from much experience that it is frequently futile. But this is not an opinion that we promote to the detriment of anyone else attempts. I wish everybody well if they are writing to IE or a local TD or even the Minister!

P11 will soon launch its own Newsletter, a new web site and P11 TV on YOUTUBE. We are always available to offer advice and assistance to existing and new user groups.

In relation to the Kildare Line, I personally believe that an amalgamation of user groups under the P11 banner would achieve results far quicker. There is a current view within IE that we are not to be listened to and that is based purely and simply on the fact that we know what we are talking about and don't fall for IE excuses. Its against that background that we have decided to upgrade our PR mechanisms.

I hope this explains where we are coming from without causing offense to those who thankfully take the time to write letters of complaint.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Chris, can I just also say that this is the third thread we've had on theis god-awfull bus service, which i was a regular victim of years ago and had to fork out for txis to get to work because of it.

Go directly to the bus company and complain. Get a petition going and present it to IE. They are paying for this service, if it isnt working the company has to be replaced.