Paris Trams Return after nearly 70 years

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by colmd

E.g. I arrive at the red cow park and ride, pay once for the car park. I cannot buy a ticket to go to rush and lusk. Or can I?
so I buy a tram ticket to connolly and then a train ticket to rush and lusk. this is not integrated.

But you can buy any rail station to any red luas central zone stop

The RPA refused to consider implementing proper through ticketing. I know I asked

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Originally Posted by colmd

Nigel, can you tell me where along the red luas line I can buy a tram ticket that also works on trains?

Not the fault of the Luas as a transport concept. This is the fault of all the QUANGOS, semi-states, public bodies (including ther RPA), trade union fighting for the own selfish piece of the pie and all of them using YOU the public transport user as the pawn. Please do not confuse the shortcommings of the highly successful public transport solution which is Luas with the 60 odd of war against integrated public transport which CIE began in the 1930's.

Once again, people seem to blame the Irish cultural war against the public transport users on the RPA and the Luas. Colmd, this tickenting situation was forced on the RPA by powerful poltical interests in the same way the The Gap between the Red and Green line was. It was not the fault of the Luas, nor the RPA.

Originally Posted by colmd

E.g. I arrive at the red cow park and ride, pay once for the car park. I cannot buy a ticket to go to rush and lusk. Or can I?
so I buy a tram ticket to connolly and then a train ticket to rush and lusk. this is not integrated.

Again none of your issues with Luas is the fault of Luas. Try buying a DART ticket on a Dublin Bus or a BE services. It's the same thing and that were you should be directing your anger because IE/BE and BaC are all within CIE. How can you attack the Luas for not being perfectly integrated when CIE have made lack of integration and crazy ticketing into an artform.

Originally Posted by colmd

the luas is only adjacent.

The Luas is integrated with Connolly by any international yardstick for integration between public two transport modes. It is not an unacceptable distance. That's the reality of the matter.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Imagine a Chicken. That Chicken is called T21, and it comes with legs, wings, breasts, tighs, lets call them Interconnector, Metro, LUAS, Navan.

I llike breasts, but I dont like wings. Does that mean I dont like Chicken?

Chicken is a package, like T21, I dislike Chicken as a package but I like bits of Chicken.

What's the problem with that?

T21 is, as I have been pointing out since last year, nothing new. There is absolutly nothing new in T21, its the same stuff, all in a new package. The individual bits all have the same merits and demerits as before. Anyone who thinks otherwise should have their vote taken off them.

I thought my anology and metaphors with T21 as a poker game was dodgy enough, but this chicken one is fantastic.

As I have watched a lot of bizzare astromony programmes from the USA on Discovery Channel with their Baseball Analogies used to explain the gravatational field of Saturn's mass on its ring stucture to the great unwashed, I would like to take the chicken concept further.

T21 is like a Bucket of KFC.

P11 wants the Breasts with Extra crispy (satisfies the most people, plenty of meat for all = Interconector, MetroNorth etc) while WestonTrack/IRN want the Zinger Chicken Sandwich (overpriced, narrow customer base, labour intensive, not very appealing and only available for a limited amount of time = WRC).

P11 on the other hand consider the Zinger chicken sandwich only good for the meat in the middle (Ennis-Athenry-Oranmore-Galway) and throw the bun and the dodgy dressing and salad into the bin (Tuam-Claremorris and Burma Road).

CIE is Pat Grace's Famous Fried Chicken (1970's undercooked and greasy Irish poor quality copy of the real thing).

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

CIE is Pat Grace's Famous Fried Chicken (1970's undercooked and greasy Irish poor quality copy of the real thing).

Aha................. Pat Grace used to be title sponser of the Leauge of Ireland ("The Pat Grace Kentucky Fried Chicken Leauge Of Ireland") and there are startling similarities between the FAI and CIE.

And you forgot the Tower Burger in your KFC review. How could you?

[Colm Donoghue]

You're essentially right, the luas is bang up against both Heuston and Connolly.
and it's easy to use and all that.

I'd liken that to hardware.
The software is missing and it's because of all the vested/useless interests using us as pawns. The glue to stick it all together is missing.

The difference is you'd see the luas as good enough. I think it has been implemented badly and this messing by govt* has stopped the luas from being truly integrated.

I'd question your statement about the rpa being forced to take the non-integrated ticketing approach.
The rpa are responsible for integrated ticketing. They have managed to convince every one smart cards are the way forward. Yet they have introduced two smart card systems, Luas and Mortons.

"In April 2004 RPA's Integrated Ticketing Department launched a pilot smart card system for Morton's Coaches.

In March 2005 RPA's Integrated Ticketing Department assisted Luas in launching a smart card system across the Red and Green lines. "
http://www.rpa.ie/?id=321

The car parks at the luas aren't integrated either.


I agree cie are crap and have the deadweight dragging them down. I'm more upset the brand new clean slate 21st century rpa are not dam near perfect. which they should be. It's the things inside the control of the rpa that they've done badly that I'm complaining about.

I'd actually forgotten about Pat Grace. remember it from All Ireland tv ad time alright. bang on the money there.

*govt
central govt, civil service, local govt, co&city councillors, td's&senators, companied whose majority shareholder is one of the above, organisations controlled by and responsible to one of the above.

[Mark]

The Final cost of the Luas system came in at €770 million.

In Connolly Heavy Rail and Luas are as integrated as they could possibly be.

Transport 21 is not about plans, its all about finance and policy. Something PFC sorely lacked.

T21 had a good summer but Autumn has seen some delays and indecision. Between now and the election will be a telling time.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Aha................. Pat Grace used to be title sponser of the Leauge of Ireland ("The Pat Grace Kentucky Fried Chicken Leauge Of Ireland") and there are startling similarities between the FAI and CIE.

And you forgot the Tower Burger in your KFC review. How could you?

I think Pat Grace was also the owner and a player at one time with Limerick United and featured in the team which gave Real Madrid a hell of fright back in the 1970's in the European Cup. So yes, the FAI/CIE cultual link is very true.

So Limerick United/City/FC would be railfreight - should be major force, but has vanished from the scene.

I can think of a few weirdos on IRN and Boards.ie would would be the rail transport version of the Dundalk FC bloke with the gallon of petrol the other day. Except he would probably be even more grounded in reality then some of that shower.

Being a life-long Bohs supporter myself and rolling in obscene amounts of other people's money. I would have to say that Bohs are the National Toll Roads of Irish soccer.

Shamrock Rovers are the Fry Model Railway Museum - Living off the past and cheap nostalgia.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

I think Pat Grace was also the owner and a player at one time with Limerick United and featured in the team which gave Real Madrid a hell of fright back in the 1970's in the European Cup. So yes, the FAI/CIE cultual link is very true.

So Limerick United/City/FC would be railfreight - should be major force, but has vanished from the scene.

I can think of a few weirdos on IRN and Boards.ie would would be the rail transport version of the Dundalk FC bloke with the gallon of petrol the other day. Except he would probably be even more grounded in reality then some of that shower.

Being a life-long Bohs supporter myself and rolling in obscene amounts of other people's money. I would have to say that Bohs are the National Toll Roads of Irish soccer.

Shamrock Rovers are the Fry Model Railway Museum - Living off the past and cheap nostalgia.

I agree with your analysis. Esp as Wheeler supports that Rovers shower. Funny though, the Kilcoynes sell off Miltown, big story, Bohs sell off Dalymount, not a big story. Course, Bohs just didnt happen to auqire it a few years beforehand for a few shillings though..............

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

Shamrock Rovers are the Fry Model Railway Museum - Living off the past and cheap nostalgia.

Really? Didn't hear many Bozos saying that when we knocked them out of the cup this season

Amazing really, despite being homeless for 20 years and playing in the first division this season we still manage to beat the self proclaimed "big club" quite easily.

Back on topic - Thomas Stamp is right, there is nothing new in T21, all of these projects have been unveiled before. The difference is under T21 the government have finally commited to fund their construction.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Funny though, the Kilcoynes sell off Miltown, big story, Bohs sell off Dalymount, not a big story.

It's because the general public have never given two damns about Bohs, despite a couple of successful seasons in the last few years they are still as irrelevant as they ever were in the public mindset. Rovers on the other hand always get attention and remain the biggest name in Irish football - isn't that right Nige

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by Dave

Rovers on the other hand always get attention and remain the biggest name in Irish football - isn't that right Nige

Biggest name in Irish football NOT.

Dodgy dealings last year with false information on the licensing documentation. The biggest sets of thugs as supporters. But still the nostalgic backing of RTÉ types and people who think they look like Celtic.

Rovers are more of a WRC really. Shouldn't have been let into the new premiership at all.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Oisin88

Biggest name in Irish football NOT.

Dodgy dealings last year with false information on the licensing documentation. The biggest sets of thugs as supporters. But still the nostalgic backing of RTÉ types and people who think they look like Celtic.

Rovers are more of a WRC really. Shouldn't have been let into the new premiership at all.

Those same set of fans (or thugs as you prefer to call us) myself included were the ones who reported the licensing and financial irregularities to the FAI before ousting the crooks who were running the club then successfully financed a takeover of the club which has led to now being arguably the most professionally run club in the country. It's even looking like we may turn a small profit this year.

The point I was making above is, everyone has an opinion on Rovers whether it be good or bad. Bohs on the other hand don't garner much opinion either way.

Who would have thought an "innocent" article on Parisian trams would have led to heated discussions on T21, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Irish Football! Fitzgricer - you've a lot to answer for

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Dave

Who would have thought an "innocent" article on Parisian trams would have led to heated discussions on T21, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Irish Football! Fitzgricer - you've a lot to answer for

Ah no. You can blame Stamp and Wheeler for "spinning" this one. Behind the scenes and all that.

I learned to curse in Glenmalure Park, "Sheila" Darcy sold me my first computer and I puked on the pitch at the launch of the floodlights, when Liverpool beat us 3-0. (Derek's Hoops nostalgia)

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

I learned to curse in Glenmalure Park, "Sheila" Darcy sold me my first computer and I puked on the pitch at the launch of the floodlights, when Liverpool beat us 3-0. (Derek's Hoops nostalgia)

Had you been eating some type of the aforementioned fried chicken?

[Thomas J Stamp]

the most professionally run club in the country.

Yeah, nice ground you dont have there.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Yeah, nice ground you dont have there.

Out of our hands at the moment thanks to Thomas Davis attempts to delay Rovers' first team joining the rest of the club in Tallaght by taking a judicial review of the decision to build a soccer only stadium funded by government grants. The hypocrisy of Thomas Davis is sickening considering their own GAA only facilities including clubhouse and all weather training pitches were funded by government grants too.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Dave

Out of our hands at the moment thanks to Thomas Davis attempts to delay Rovers' first team joining the rest of the club in Tallaght by taking a judicial review of the decision to build a soccer only stadium funded by government grants. The hypocrisy of Thomas Davis is sickening considering their own GAA only facilities including clubhouse and all weather training pitches were funded by government grants too.

Thomas Davis being the latest in a looooooong line of excuses.................

[NB1]

"If one has normal functioning legs, its an easy integration. This would be considered perfectly acceptable integration between two rail services anywhere in the world."

Anybody with normal functioning legs could also walk between Heuston & Connolly but I would hardly call them integrated !

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by NB1

"If one has normal functioning legs, its an easy integration. This would be considered perfectly acceptable integration between two rail services anywhere in the world."

Anybody with normal functioning legs could also walk between Heuston & Connolly but I would hardly call them integrated !

Which is how I do it, takes about 25 minutes, Luas takes 17 needless to say I beat the tram on many a day

Fundamental issue is integration you won't find any signs on the RPA owned section pointing to Connolly station itself but you will find signs in Connolly station directing you to trams

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Thomas Davis being the latest in a looooooong line of excuses.................

Your just trying to wind me up now......

Association's stance shows ban mentality is thriving in south Dublin

BEGRUDGERY. Small-mindedness. The 'Ban' mentality still lives.

That's my assessment of the motivation behind the obstructionist tactics of the six south Dublin GAA clubs who don't want Shamrock Rovers and soccer to have sole possession of Tallaght Stadium.

Possibly there's fear, too. Fear that in some way if Rovers get a base in that part of Dublin it will somehow sway the youth to take up soccer instead of GAA.

What is certain is that the small number of officials behind this campaign to pressurise local politicians and the Minister for Sport, are working themselves up into a right lather.

Their self-righteousness grows week by week, and they now appear to believe that they have an inalienable RIGHT to have GAA in the stadium as well as soccer. Wrong, lads. Very wrong. And in the interests of sport and to avoid embarrassing yourselves any further, I suggest you back off right now.

Let me state clearly that as a former GAA Correspondent of the Sunday Independent, and as someone who has also regularly covered and commented on soccer for 34 years, I have a good insight into both organisations.

Hats off

First, hats off unequivocally to the GAA for all they have done for the country.

Back in the early part of the 20th Century, the GAA bought the field at Jones Road and through the decades have continued to build Croke Park up to the present day where it is one of the best stadia in Europe.

Around the country, in parishes and counties, similar great work has been carried out due to the enterprise, the courage and the vision of club and county officials, all the more impressive because much of it happened when Ireland was broke. League of Ireland soccer as a whole and the FAI did not do justice to the amount of money that floated into the game when crowds were huge in the Forties, Fifties and Sixties - but Rovers did.

They brought international renown to Ireland by their exploits against the Busby Babes of Manchester United in the fifties and other top European sides including Bayern Munich.

Shamefully sold out for property development in the mid-Eighties, Rovers have struggled without a home for 20 years.

Thomas Davis, St Judes, St Anne's, CroÃ* Ró Naofa, St Mark's and Faughs have run their clubs up to now without Tallaght stadium.

They have clubhouses and facilities for their members, so why do they need to covet their neighbour's home?

Not for any good reason that I can see, however much they try to cloak their motives and poor sportsmanship in high-sounding idealism.

It doesn't make sense, financial or otherwise, to pay more money and waste more time extending the pitch to accommodate these clubs because of anti-soccer bias.

The idea that these officials might commit club funds for a costly legal action in this situation is ludicrous and deserves harsh criticism at their AGMs if they go to court.

I hope that Minister John O'Donoghue holds the line and sends these guys packing. They'd be better off attending to their own individual clubs' business instead of butting into Rovers' affairs.

They should take note of the Minister's comments that the GAA got €110 million for Croke Park, that 34 per cent of sports capital funding in the last few years had gone to Gaelic games, and that the Government would assist the GAA with building a ground on 26 acres in Rathcoole.

The GAA as a whole deserves all that, and more, and good luck to them. Why can't they extend the same charitable and open-minded outlook to Shamrock Rovers?

The Hoops are not run for shareholders' profit by fat cats such as the Glazer family that own Manchester United.

This club was saved from extinction by genuine ordinary fans who keep it alive by standing orders from their own bank accounts.

Practical

They just want to see their team continue in the Eircom League and hopefully prosper.

To do that, they need a home. Tallaght Stadium should be that home for their use, and if another Eircom League club comes in, that is utilising resources in a very practical manner.

Two's company, three - if the six GAA clubs bully their way in - is definitely a crowd and would make the Stadium unworkable.

Stand fast, John O'Donoghue and South Dublin County Council!

FAI fully behind Rovers in stadium battle
Thursday, 14 December 2006 5:31

The Football Association of Ireland has today fully supported Shamrock Rovers position in the on-going saga over the stalled Tallaght Stadium project.


The FAI has also pledged financial assistance for the Hoops' High Court battle involving GAA club Thomas Davis, whose have delayed completion of the stadium through the courts.

Yesterday the High Court determined that the hearing of the case would take place on 16 March, delaying the project by at least a further three months.


This will mean that the Stadium construction will have been stalled by this legal case for a minimum of 13 months.


'We want to see Shamrock Rovers playing in the Tallaght Community Stadium - and as soon as possible. We have been working hard behind the scenes with the various stakeholders over the past two years to see Tallaght completed for soccer in the area,' said FAI Chief Executive, John Delaney.


'This week, the Board of the Association pledged significant funds to the club in order to aid them in the most practical manner as they continue to pursue the goal of completion of Tallaght.'


'These funds will be offset against the legal fees Rovers face as the High Court case continues. Obviously, we wish the club every success in this matter.'


Shamrock Rovers' Chairman, Jonathan Roche, welcomed the FAI's commitment to the Tallaght Stadium project and its funding of the club's legal fees.


'To have such full and public support of the FAI behind us means that Irish football is united on this issue,' says Roche. 'And that support is most welcome.


'It's quite clear that there is a concerted effort to prolong the process as much as possible in order to prevent our senior team joining the rest of the club in Tallaght. But it won't succeed.'