dwell times

al2637 · 08-12-2006, 12:08

This morning I timed the dwell times on my commute to work (A'dam Metro).

From the moment the metro came to a complete stop, to the moment it started moving again ranged from 14-16 seconds. Even at busy stops in the city centre, the MAX was 16. This time includes door opening, passengers/bikes getting off, passengers/bikes getting on, door closing warning sound, doors closing, and then moving....

I really don't understand why the DART and Commuter trains dwell for so long. Is it simply the padding in the IE timetable? I know at crush load it can take a bit longer, but they still seem to stand at the platform too long. Even after the doors close it usually takes a few moments before the train actully pulls away.

Maybe this is very simplistic, but surley the less dwell time you have, the quicker the journey will be and thus the more capacity you have?

Thomas J Stamp · 08-12-2006, 12:14

Kate Thornton always waits 13 seconds from "the next person through to the next round is" to naming the person.

We timed it one night.

2Funki4Wheelz · 08-12-2006, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Kate Thornton always waits 13 seconds from "the next person through to the next round is" to naming the person.

We timed it one night.

I will time Tyra on the next ANTM - "The person still in the running to become America's next top model is...."

On topic - I suppose you have to make allowances for people that are slow getting on the trains and general lack of commuter etiquette (all piling in, not moving out of the way etc). This is very noticable on the Luas which is regularly delayed at stops because of people's bad manners.

Mark Gleeson · 08-12-2006, 12:26

Not forgetting trying to crawl through the coach to find the platform in Portarlington

2Funki4Wheelz · 08-12-2006, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Not forgetting trying to crawl through the coach to find the platform in Portarlington

And getting stuck behind dining carts, and having doors out of order and buggys and suitcases and bodies in the way.

PS that is getting fixed, we'll have big long fabulous platforms next year.

al2637 · 08-12-2006, 13:56

It's not such a big issue on InterCity trains, but on DART/Commuter with many stops, it's a nightmare! From Coolmine to Town there's 6 stops. Save 60secs per stop and you knock 6 mins from the journey time!

colmoc · 08-12-2006, 14:20

I would love to know how long a train would take from coolmine to pearse without padding, where each stop takes max 60 sec, where the train travels at or near the limit for the track and finally where there is no wait while other trains clear platforms
Or in other words if it was a properly run railway how long should Pearse to Coolmine take using 29000's

Mark Gleeson · 08-12-2006, 12:17

Well I've timed Pearse

To fill a 8 coach 29000 set, and the passengers know to spread out takes 45-50 seconds but thats with no one getting off. So from the train stopping to the train moving is 60 seconds

I've seen sub 20 seconds done its possible but in many cases no point since it would put you ahead of time

It needs things tightened up

Thomas the Tank · 20-12-2006, 15:46

[quote=al2637;14846]This morning I timed the dwell times on my commute to work (A'dam Metro).

From the moment the metro came to a complete stop, to the moment it started moving again ranged from 14-16 seconds. Even at busy stops in the city centre, the MAX was 16. This time includes door opening, passengers/bikes getting off, passengers/bikes getting on, door closing warning sound, doors closing, and then moving....

I guess the thing with Metros in places like Amsterdam etc is that if you don't jump on within 14-16 seconds you know that there's always going to be another one along in 2 or 3 minutes and so dwell times are reduced accordingly. Compare that to here...

Colm Donoghue · 20-12-2006, 16:06

I timed a 29k in Pearse last week in the evening peak.
49 seconds wheel stop to wheel moving again.

Mark Gleeson · 20-12-2006, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmd

I timed a 29k in Pearse last week in the evening peak.
49 seconds wheel stop to wheel moving again.

Which is pretty good given the wall of people who need to get on

James Shields · 21-12-2006, 01:49

It's pretty bad on some of the Northern line services. I'm not certain, but I suspect it comes down to timetable padding. Put simply, the train is timetabled to depart an intermediate station at a certain time, so it can't leave before that, no matter how early it arrives.

A lot of Dundalk trains also change driver in Drogheda. I can comfortably read my book until the train stops, finish the paragraph, close the book, get my bag down off the overhead rack, put my book away, get my coat off the rack, put on my coat, get my hat and gloves out of my bag, put on hat and gloves, stroll to the door and step off - and usually I can still make it out of the station building before the train departs.

On the London Underground, if you're not waiting at the doors by the time the train comes to a halt, you've missed your stop.

Graham · 31-12-2006, 03:49

Agreed about the Northern Line - as elsewhere, you can be left sitting there twiddling your thumbs, even off peak at 10-11am, with the doors wide open.

It's most certainly down to timetabling on early morning services. As you probably know well lostcarpark, the 7.16 service from Dundalk stops for exactly the same length of ridiculous time at Laytown every morning, right beside the sea with freezing winter winds blasting in at you and every ounce of heat built up over the past half hour in the coach lost over the 2-3 minutes it stands there - and all in spite of it being little more than a model railway stop with a handful of commuters who board inside 4 seconds.

By contrast the stop at Gormanston, of similar size, lasts little more than 30 seconds, and usually pulls away exactly 10 seconds after the destination announcement has finished.

Luckily for Drogheda commuters, they don't have to endure the driver changeover and ridiculous dwell time often experienced at Drogheda, often several minutes after the platform has emptied. IE's attitude is nothing more than sure there's only a handful of Dundalk types left on board - they'll be grand for a while longer while we finish our chat. And chat they do...

After five years I gave up on the Northen Line completely during the summer - it's simply not worth the hassle anymore from Dundalk. The dwell times, the infrequency, the ever-expanding farcical journey durations, and above all the hideous 29000s just turned me off the railway compltely (sadly), in favour of a private coach service. It runs every hour, costs 60% less for a return ticket than IE, is immeasurably more comfortable than the DMUs, I'm gauranteed a seat, takes a little less time than rail, and is 100% reliable.
Simply no competition. The company cannot get over the demand for their services - the amount of former rail people I see availing of it is constantly increasing too.

Colm Donoghue · 02-01-2007, 15:54

Got the train in last friday. dwell times were very short. Door open times were about 10 seconds.

Then today the usual crap.

08-12-2006, 12:14	#2
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	X-factor Dwell times Kate Thornton always waits 13 seconds from "the next person through to the next round is" to naming the person. We timed it one night. __________________ We are the passengers

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08-12-2006, 12:08	#1
al2637 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 191	This morning I timed the dwell times on my commute to work (A'dam Metro). From the moment the metro came to a complete stop, to the moment it started moving again ranged from 14-16 seconds. Even at busy stops in the city centre, the MAX was 16. This time includes door opening, passengers/bikes getting off, passengers/bikes getting on, door closing warning sound, doors closing, and then moving.... I really don't understand why the DART and Commuter trains dwell for so long. Is it simply the padding in the IE timetable? I know at crush load it can take a bit longer, but they still seem to stand at the platform too long. Even after the doors close it usually takes a few moments before the train actully pulls away. Maybe this is very simplistic, but surley the less dwell time you have, the quicker the journey will be and thus the more capacity you have?

08-12-2006, 12:26	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Not forgetting trying to crawl through the coach to find the platform in Portarlington

08-12-2006, 13:56	#6
al2637 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 191	It's not such a big issue on InterCity trains, but on DART/Commuter with many stops, it's a nightmare! From Coolmine to Town there's 6 stops. Save 60secs per stop and you knock 6 mins from the journey time!

08-12-2006, 14:20	#7
colmoc Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	I would love to know how long a train would take from coolmine to pearse without padding, where each stop takes max 60 sec, where the train travels at or near the limit for the track and finally where there is no wait while other trains clear platforms Or in other words if it was a properly run railway how long should Pearse to Coolmine take using 29000's

08-12-2006, 12:17	#8
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Well I've timed Pearse To fill a 8 coach 29000 set, and the passengers know to spread out takes 45-50 seconds but thats with no one getting off. So from the train stopping to the train moving is 60 seconds I've seen sub 20 seconds done its possible but in many cases no point since it would put you ahead of time It needs things tightened up

20-12-2006, 15:46	#9
Thomas the Tank New to the board Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23	[quote=al2637;14846]This morning I timed the dwell times on my commute to work (A'dam Metro). From the moment the metro came to a complete stop, to the moment it started moving again ranged from 14-16 seconds. Even at busy stops in the city centre, the MAX was 16. This time includes door opening, passengers/bikes getting off, passengers/bikes getting on, door closing warning sound, doors closing, and then moving.... I guess the thing with Metros in places like Amsterdam etc is that if you don't jump on within 14-16 seconds you know that there's always going to be another one along in 2 or 3 minutes and so dwell times are reduced accordingly. Compare that to here...

20-12-2006, 16:06	#10
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	I timed a 29k in Pearse last week in the evening peak. 49 seconds wheel stop to wheel moving again.

21-12-2006, 01:49	#12
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	It's pretty bad on some of the Northern line services. I'm not certain, but I suspect it comes down to timetable padding. Put simply, the train is timetabled to depart an intermediate station at a certain time, so it can't leave before that, no matter how early it arrives. A lot of Dundalk trains also change driver in Drogheda. I can comfortably read my book until the train stops, finish the paragraph, close the book, get my bag down off the overhead rack, put my book away, get my coat off the rack, put on my coat, get my hat and gloves out of my bag, put on hat and gloves, stroll to the door and step off - and usually I can still make it out of the station building before the train departs. On the London Underground, if you're not waiting at the doors by the time the train comes to a halt, you've missed your stop.

31-12-2006, 03:49	#13
Graham New to the board Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: crawling behind a DART Posts: 25	Agreed about the Northern Line - as elsewhere, you can be left sitting there twiddling your thumbs, even off peak at 10-11am, with the doors wide open. It's most certainly down to timetabling on early morning services. As you probably know well lostcarpark, the 7.16 service from Dundalk stops for exactly the same length of ridiculous time at Laytown every morning, right beside the sea with freezing winter winds blasting in at you and every ounce of heat built up over the past half hour in the coach lost over the 2-3 minutes it stands there - and all in spite of it being little more than a model railway stop with a handful of commuters who board inside 4 seconds. By contrast the stop at Gormanston, of similar size, lasts little more than 30 seconds, and usually pulls away exactly 10 seconds after the destination announcement has finished. Luckily for Drogheda commuters, they don't have to endure the driver changeover and ridiculous dwell time often experienced at Drogheda, often several minutes after the platform has emptied. IE's attitude is nothing more than sure there's only a handful of Dundalk types left on board - they'll be grand for a while longer while we finish our chat. And chat they do... After five years I gave up on the Northen Line completely during the summer - it's simply not worth the hassle anymore from Dundalk. The dwell times, the infrequency, the ever-expanding farcical journey durations, and above all the hideous 29000s just turned me off the railway compltely (sadly), in favour of a private coach service. It runs every hour, costs 60% less for a return ticket than IE, is immeasurably more comfortable than the DMUs, I'm gauranteed a seat, takes a little less time than rail, and is 100% reliable. Simply no competition. The company cannot get over the demand for their services - the amount of former rail people I see availing of it is constantly increasing too.

02-01-2007, 15:54	#14
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	Got the train in last friday. dwell times were very short. Door open times were about 10 seconds. Then today the usual crap.