[Article]Labour promises cheaper bus fares

[Gary]

Anyone read this? Just launched today. Mostly on Bus Services but bit at the end about other transport issues from interconnector to cycle lanes.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/ge...ving_nov06.pdf

As with all political campaigns a pinch salt is required!

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by breakingnews.ie

All adult bus fares in Dublin will cost €1 if Labour gets into Government, it was claimed today.

The party will only charge children 50 cent as part of its ’Get Dublin Moving: Ending The Gridlock’ policy document unveiled today.

Labour will also put six park-and-ride facilities around the M50 and fully complete the city’s 11 Quality Bus Corridors.

Promising to add 500 buses to the Dublin Bus fleet, transport spokesperson Roisin Shortall said: “There has been no increase in the Dublin Bus fleet from 2001 to late 2005.

“One year into Transport 21, only 20 extra buses operate on our streets. We still have the problem of Quality Bus Corridors (QBCs) without adequate bus services, and bus services without adequate QBCs,” she said.

The party also says it will replace the Travel Pass Scheme with a new value “freedom card” which will offer cheaper fares and greater integration for all commuters.

“The only short-medium term solution to the traffic chaos in the greater Dublin area is to provide commuters with the option of reliable public transport, and the only way to do this is through improved bus services,” said Ms Shortall.

“The bus is going to continue to be the workhorse of the public transport system for many years to come and will continue to be a crucial element of it, even if and when all the rail and tram proposals in Transport 21 come on stream,” she added.

Ms Shortall criticised the Government for having no strategy for dealing with the congestion crisis facing commuters daily.

She said she was on her way into Dublin city centre during the first day of Operation Freeflow when she saw three cars parked on clearways.

This is the best thing I have heard in relation to public transport, possilby ever.

I moved this to the media section.

It is a very good proposal, I would be for it. How are Labour on keeping promises (I'm only young ).

[Maynooth_Line]

Unfortunately it would take a major effort to do this. If the government was to give Dublin Bus 500 new buses all the private operators would be going mad and they'd take the case to the European courts and everything would get delayed for ages.

Also, if Dublin Bus was to lower their fares to €1 for all single trips, the private operators would again cry fowl and argue to the European courts that the state is subsiding a state company and they can't compete in the market.

If only things were that easy....

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

I am glad to see that Rosin Shorthall finally realises that the Interconnector is important. So I give credit there. There are some good things in this report alright. The one Euro flat bus fare is a great idea through.

However the following paragraph from the document is enough to put me off voting for Labour. This is a classic:

There are lessons to be
learned from the experience with LUAS.

When commuters are given the option of a transport system which they can
depend on, which is fast, and which has reliable journey times, they will make
the switch. Many of the characteristics of LUAS can be replicated across the
Greater Dublin Area if a strategic approach is adopted to bus services.

The fact that Dublin Bus lost 6 million passengers a year to Luas precisely because it is NOT a Dublin Bus service seems to be lost of them. Or maybe it isn't, and is far too painfull for them to deal with.

More buses yes, but not as part of some CIE unions vendetta against the Luas.

Bertie and McDowell are still getting my vote. I am shallow and superficial enough to have been won over by Transport 21. Even with its faults.

[Oisin88]

I like this part:

She said she was on her way into Dublin city centre during the first day of Operation Freeflow when she saw three cars parked on clearways.

because, you could finish the sentence with:

which was down from the usual 3 cars parked in every clearway.

[ACustomer]

The day after La Shorthall announces her big idea about encouraging us to use public transport, her Union buddies threaten a strike about the amount of time they need for consultation on the new DTA.

When will the penny drop with Bertie, Shorthall and the other idiots who are in thrall to the likes of the NBRU and SIPTU?

[Donal Quinn]

this obsession with extra busses is maddening

i mean can theese people just look at the city centre in rush hour and tell me where these new busses are going to fit!!

i don't think that DB is all that far off having enough capacity - it's just that the buses are stuck in private traffic!

does that make sense?

[PaulM]

I think more buses are needed. The wait times are far too long on some routes. I would think the idea is that more people on buses would mean less cars in the city.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Is there a general election coming?

[Gobdaw]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Is there a general election coming?

Er, yes, and its our one chance in five years to have a real impact on government. We should not waste that chance.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

When will the penny drop with Bertie, Shorthall and the other idiots who are in thrall to the likes of the NBRU and SIPTU?

I was just thinking this morning that the CIE unions will, in about 5 years, have been in exsistence longer than the Soviet Union.

Rosin Shorthall even though she is surrounded by public transport drives everywhere. I don't think she has any history of public transport usage as an adult.

This is were this obsession with buses comes from. People who do not use public transport at all, have no idea that a bus is the least attractive means of getting to and from work from a passenger point of view.

This is why Rosin Shorthall thinks the same way as right wing economist when it comes to public transport. A Bus is good enough for the great unwashed, becuase the political and economic pundits never have to use public transport.

Not that any of this matters. The CIE unions are back in suicide mode and this latest strike might be the final nail in the coffin of the Interconnector. If not this, a strike prior to the opening of Docklands station would most certainly kill off the Interconnector.

I was thinking that if MetroWest was intergrated properly with the Maynooth, Kildare lines and also extended to meet the DART at Donebate, and if the Kildare Services were routed over the PPT and into the Docklands and Connolly you would problably get away without the Interconenctor. You have to wonder if this is the reason why MetroWest is suddendly being fast tracked and the Interconnector has re-enetered the domain of mythology once again? The CIE unions really might have destroyed the Interconnector this time and Shorthall by specfically mentioning it now, has got wind it's been shelved and is trying to keep this CIE flagship project alive?

Still like the 1 Euro flat bus fare idea!

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Gobdaw

Er, yes, and its our one chance in five years to have a real impact on government. We should not waste that chance.

Thanks for that! I'm all enthused now.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

This is were this obsession with buses comes from. People who do not use public transport at all, have no idea that a bus is the least attractive means of getting to and from work from a passenger point of view.

That's a bit short sighted. Buses are the only immediate solution to Dublin's traffic problem. Neither Metro North nor West will be in service inside of five years. KRP will make no difference to people living in Dublin. The new Luas extensions have limited coverage. More buses, better bus corridors and priority junctions would improve things no-end and in a much shorter timeframe.

You're right, buses are the worst way to commute to work but I'd rather a good bus service in six months than the vague promise of a metro in five or six years time. Even when it does arrive, we'll still need buses. If MN was built right now, I'd be faster getting the bus to work than a bus -> metro -> dart combination.

In the long-term we should be aiming at trains being the primary mode of transport in Dublin but that's a very long time and several general elections away.

I was thinking that if MetroWest was intergrated properly with the Maynooth, Kildare lines and also extended to meet the DART at Donebate, and if the Kildare Services were routed over the PPT and into the Docklands and Connolly you would problably get away without the Interconenctor.

You could get away with it if you ignore the benefits the Interconnector brings to the city centre. Trains are about more than bringing people from Kildare into Dublin.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Originally Posted by markpb

That's a bit short sighted. Buses are the only immediate solution to Dublin's traffic problem. Neither Metro North nor West will be in service inside of five years.

I want more buses. But look at the Labour document it makes no bones about buses being used to replace Luas (and I suspect metro as well). I have nothing against bustitution to replace regional failed rail lines such as Limerick to Rosslare with proper inter-city buses, the issue with Dublin is too many double deckers routes are, as a result of bad planning are practically inter-city services travelling incredible distances.

This is not normal, this is the cause of the problems we have with the rejection of public transport within vast regions of the GDR. Nobody wants to sit on a rattling, condensation filled CIE double decker boucing for 2 hours along the boreens of Meath. Adding 500 more CIE buses would help things a bit sure, but it won't create a cultural shift from prviate car to public transport. Only high-capacity Heavy Rail, Luas and Metro will do that.

Long distance "city" bus routes are very unappealing to the public and destroys the frequency potential of the services given the vast distances they have to cover. Given a choice between taking a bus to work from Rochfortbridge, Kinniegad, Navan and so on, I would take the car and drive anyday. 500 extra buses is not going to solve this. Only proper planning and a high capacity rail network will.

I agree with most of what you said. But I still think I have a valid point. The bus is always the public transport option which right-wing economists and politicians such as Rosin Shorthall always promote because they themselves will never have to commute in anything but their private cars. They will never have to breathe in second-hand skanger smoke, nor stand in the rain on the Naas Road hoping that a bus shows up.

Originally Posted by markpb

You could get away with it if you ignore the benefits the Interconnector brings to the city centre. Trains are about more than bringing people from Kildare into Dublin.

I didn't say I was happy about the Interconector being possibly shelved due to Government frustration with the CIE unions. Just thinking like a politican who might be looking for an excuse not to write the cheque for it.

It would be tragic if this happened, but like it or not the Interconector is the most mortal element within T21 and was very much dependent on the behaviour and good faith of the CIE unions to generate political and public confidence in financing the project.

I am not the one promising to go on strike this morning over absolutely feck all, so take it out with them not me.

[Gobdaw]

The only thing a seating politician, all politicians, fear and hate is an election. It's the one time their actions and proposals can be judged and the option of a sanction delivered by the public.

Seating politicians love punters to think that "all politicians are the same" as it means that they will be returned without too much hassle. Being cynical just props them up. They need to be made nervious and to make them think how to save their politicial skins by suggesting schemes to solve voters' problems.

If we don't lean on the politicos in the next several months, things will just continue as before. While politicos might only deliver half of what they promise, if we don't extract promises then half of nothing is nothing.

I don't know of any other system that works (sometime). I find elections very empowering, even if only momentarily.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Call me simple minded, but I find the notion of the Irish public transport network completely free from the CIE unions to be the most empowering concept of all.

STRIKE!

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

Call me simple minded, but I find the notion of the Irish public transport network completely free from the CIE unions to be the most empowering concept of all.

STRIKE!

Irrelevant to the thread at hand. Please keep on topic.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Not really that off-topic as the Labour Party/SIPTU and the CIE unions are all the same entity. I can send you copies of Liberty which is a real eye opener into all this stuff. The commuters are very much the sacrifical lambs in the unions war against CIE management and the Labour party has always supported them unconditionally. This brings Rosin Shorthall's empathy for public transport users contained in this latest manifesto in real persective. The Labour Party document is more about creating 500 more union jobs at CIE, while undermning the Luas than any compassion Rosin Shorthall may have for people standing at bus stops as she is driving past them.

But fair enough I'll drop it so.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

Not really that off-topic as the Labour Party/SIPTU and the CIE unions are all the same entity. I can send you copies of Liberty which is a real eye opener into all this stuff. The commuters are very much the sacrifical lambs in the unions war against CIE management and the Labour party has always supported them unconditionally. This brings Rosin Shorthall's empathy for public transport users contained in this latest manifesto in real persective. The Labour Party document is more about creating 500 more union jobs at CIE, while undermning the Luas than any compassion Rosin Shorthall may have for people standing at bus stops as she is driving past them.

But fair enough I'll drop it so.

Eh no....don't drop it as its actually relevent this time, because the NBRU have threatened strike action and the Labour/Union link is very strong. However the aforementioned Labour/Union link is very dodgy indeed if one looks close enough and I agree with N Fitz that its about the great unwashed. Labour want to look working class, but that aspect of their make up was probably shot with James Connolly.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Actually to be honest I am kinda glad Paul told me to shut up as I get sick some days thinking about how much of a second class citizen public transport users in this country are, and how the CIE unions declare without the slightest hint of irony that they have a god-given right to treat public transport users as barginging tools in their self-serving and moronic agenda.

Listening to Rosin Shorthall going on about making like better for commuters while she is officially endentured to the CIE unions is way beyond the Jockey's gonads.