More PD/FF Bickering over the busses

alek smart · 12-09-2006, 12:47

One of the less apparent results from embracing the PD Public Transport policy will be a VERY substantial increase in fare levels.

This increase will be swift (a la Electricity/Gas) and will contribute immediately to a serious shift in our Inflation baseline.

As an example we can take the London Model,which appears to be finding much favour amongst PD`ite political people at the moment.
Transport for London (TfL) has just announced its 2007 tarriff structure and boy are the pigeons flocking home to roost.
On Bus Cash Fare up from £1.50 to £2.00.
Travelcards up by Retail Price Index + 2% ( A new Wheeze This)
Oystercard offpeak cash bus fare up from 80p to £1.00 (A REAL surprise here)

NB: NOTE FIGURES IN STERLING !!

http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...releaseid=9169

Even Londons top Transport Tsar (A real one too) TfL`s Transport Commissioner Peter Hendy has continually warned other cities AGAINST attempting to emulate London`s success UNLESS they were prepared to fully fund any such system.

Let there be NO doubt but that in This Republic our administrators are NOT prepared to come anywhere near funding such innovation.

Now lets see....when IS that oul election...?

al2637 · 12-09-2006, 14:48

In fairness, the only Oyster fare to go up was the off-peak bus fare.

Peter Hendy was on the news last night explaining the increase was to encourage people to use Oyster (not something I totally agtee with).

Cash Tube fares are rising 33% from £3 to £4 :-o. The Oyster fare is not increasing.

I don't see why exactly fares would need to go up here tho... If the government subvention didn't decrease surley the worst that could happen would be for DB to bid for all existing services at the existing amount? Best case scenario would be other operators being able to offer cheaper services and thus saving DTA money!

Seems simple to me, or have I got something very wrong?

MrX · 14-09-2006, 09:15

The reality of the Cork Bus "Service" is that it basically doesn't function as a public transport system at all. It's so inadequate that areas like Carriagaline, have some of the highest levels of car-based commuting in Western Europe.

Douglas to the City Centre took me 2 hours this morning due to endless traffic, it's getting progressively far worse as the Rochestown area gets more heavily developed.

That's 2 hours to cover about 4 KM btw!!

None of Rochestown is served by regular bus services, despite its proximity to the city centre and its population. It's still treated as a "country route" as it was in 1950.

I would without any hesitation say that Cork has the worst public transport I have ever experienced in any city. It's just dire.

It's also been so bad for so long that I don't think people even notice anymore.

Colm Donoghue · 14-09-2006, 09:26

That's my point.
If the pd's really wanted to make public transport beter and show how much better private vs cie is, start in Cork. Cos it'd be hard to be worse.

If it's only about the money, then cork's a small fish and fart around in Dublin.

comcor · 14-09-2006, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrX

Douglas to the City Centre took me 2 hours this morning due to endless traffic, it's getting progressively far worse as the Rochestown area gets more heavily developed.

Douglas to South Mall is only a 40 minute walk.

Perhaps an umbrella is a better investment than a car...

AZ1 · 14-09-2006, 14:28

Does anyone out there know actually the policies of FF, PD, FG and Labour on urban mass transit in Ireland? Could same be summarized somewhere so we could be aware of what these guys (officially) think? The fact that none are professional planners is a no-brainer. But it wold be helpful to have something on just for the record. Not only for the sake of this thread. Ciao.

MrX · 15-09-2006, 12:17

It's not a 40 min walk to Rochestown! It's well over an hour!

You can't really suggest that CIE shouldn't serve any destinations that are less than a 40 min brisk walk from the city centre. Although, I can see this being a great new policy!

At that rate, you might as well forget busses to Ranalagh, Drumcondra, UCD (sure it's only a short amble really).. and so on.

Having urban transport issues decided by a national government which is focused primarily on two things 1) Central Dublin (the bits near Leinster House mostly) and 2) Farmers & horse racing leaves the non Dublin urban areas in a dire state of under investment most of the time.

We really need more powerful local government and particularly powerful and accountable city authorities. It's about time we'd exec. mayors!

comcor · 15-09-2006, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrX

It's not a 40 min walk to Rochestown! It's well over an hour!

You can't really suggest that CIE shouldn't serve any destinations that are less than a 40 min brisk walk from the city centre. Although, I can see this being a great new policy!

But Rochestown doesn't get buses anyway...

And the suggestion was entirely humorous.

14-09-2006, 09:15	#3
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	On the Cork Bus "Service" The reality of the Cork Bus "Service" is that it basically doesn't function as a public transport system at all. It's so inadequate that areas like Carriagaline, have some of the highest levels of car-based commuting in Western Europe. Douglas to the City Centre took me 2 hours this morning due to endless traffic, it's getting progressively far worse as the Rochestown area gets more heavily developed. That's 2 hours to cover about 4 KM btw!! None of Rochestown is served by regular bus services, despite its proximity to the city centre and its population. It's still treated as a "country route" as it was in 1950. I would without any hesitation say that Cork has the worst public transport I have ever experienced in any city. It's just dire. It's also been so bad for so long that I don't think people even notice anymore.

15-09-2006, 12:17	#7
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	It's not a 40 min walk to Rochestown! It's well over an hour! You can't really suggest that CIE shouldn't serve any destinations that are less than a 40 min brisk walk from the city centre. Although, I can see this being a great new policy! At that rate, you might as well forget busses to Ranalagh, Drumcondra, UCD (sure it's only a short amble really).. and so on. Having urban transport issues decided by a national government which is focused primarily on two things 1) Central Dublin (the bits near Leinster House mostly) and 2) Farmers & horse racing leaves the non Dublin urban areas in a dire state of under investment most of the time. We really need more powerful local government and particularly powerful and accountable city authorities. It's about time we'd exec. mayors! Last edited by MrX : 15-09-2006 at 12:21.

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12-09-2006, 12:47	#1
alek smart Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 144	One of the less apparent results from embracing the PD Public Transport policy will be a VERY substantial increase in fare levels. This increase will be swift (a la Electricity/Gas) and will contribute immediately to a serious shift in our Inflation baseline. As an example we can take the London Model,which appears to be finding much favour amongst PD`ite political people at the moment. Transport for London (TfL) has just announced its 2007 tarriff structure and boy are the pigeons flocking home to roost. On Bus Cash Fare up from £1.50 to £2.00. Travelcards up by Retail Price Index + 2% ( A new Wheeze This) Oystercard offpeak cash bus fare up from 80p to £1.00 (A REAL surprise here) NB: NOTE FIGURES IN STERLING !! http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...releaseid=9169 Even Londons top Transport Tsar (A real one too) TfL`s Transport Commissioner Peter Hendy has continually warned other cities AGAINST attempting to emulate London`s success UNLESS they were prepared to fully fund any such system. Let there be NO doubt but that in This Republic our administrators are NOT prepared to come anywhere near funding such innovation. Now lets see....when IS that oul election...?

12-09-2006, 14:48	#2
al2637 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 191	In fairness, the only Oyster fare to go up was the off-peak bus fare. Peter Hendy was on the news last night explaining the increase was to encourage people to use Oyster (not something I totally agtee with). Cash Tube fares are rising 33% from £3 to £4 :-o. The Oyster fare is not increasing. I don't see why exactly fares would need to go up here tho... If the government subvention didn't decrease surley the worst that could happen would be for DB to bid for all existing services at the existing amount? Best case scenario would be other operators being able to offer cheaper services and thus saving DTA money! Seems simple to me, or have I got something very wrong?

14-09-2006, 09:26	#4
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	That's my point. If the pd's really wanted to make public transport beter and show how much better private vs cie is, start in Cork. Cos it'd be hard to be worse. If it's only about the money, then cork's a small fish and fart around in Dublin.

14-09-2006, 14:28	#6
AZ1 Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 31	Does anyone out there know actually the policies of FF, PD, FG and Labour on urban mass transit in Ireland? Could same be summarized somewhere so we could be aware of what these guys (officially) think? The fact that none are professional planners is a no-brainer. But it wold be helpful to have something on just for the record. Not only for the sake of this thread. Ciao.