Recomend a good solicitor

[scooby]

Can anyone recomend a good solicitor to fight an unjust evasion charge
preferably someone who has delt with irish rail before

I hope it is no breaking any rules to ask for this

[Jamie2k9]

Why was the fine unjust?

[Mark Gleeson]

For legal reasons we can't really give any recommendations or allow recommendations for this kind of thing

We are very happy to discuss in public or private your issue and review the situation. We have a very deep knowledge of the rules and procedures.

[Thomas Ralph]

If you'd like to specify the journey you were making, the ticket (if any) you had, and the stage of matters things have reached, we might be able to help.

[scooby]

Well in my honest opinion it was absolutly unjust
I went to a station 2 weeks ago for my journey to work when i got there it was unmanned security shutters down
I tried to get a ticket from the vending machine but it just kept spitting the money back out nothing came up on the screen it just would not take the note
I went back inside to see if there was anyone about the barriers were open and the machine display said no ticket required

I got on the dart thinking i could pay at pearse like i have done before
When i got off at pearse i immediatly went to the guy at the barrier and explained that the booking office in the station was closed and that the machine rejected my money which i showed him. And I asked for a ticket
he said was was not allowed to sell me a ticket and said i would have to go over to a little office on the far side of the tracks which i did

I rang the bell and waited till the guy arrived and I explained again that the station was closed and i needed a ticket
you cant imagine how shocked I was when he said he was giving me a penalty fare for not having a ticket
i said i would not accept his penalty ticket as it was irish rails fault I had no ticket as i could not buy one despite trying in the station ,at the machine and in pearse
There was no changing this guys mind i did not have a ticket and that was that i was a fare evader
I took great exception to being accused of trying to evade the fare after it was me who went to them to buy a ticket
I asked for the gardai to be called as i was not going to give him my name i would only give it to the gardai as i has done nothing wrong ( in my opinion)
A guard arrived and she tried to tell me to just accept the fine and then appeal it
I declined her offer to accept the fine and she demanded my name and address which i gave her and she said i was free to go

She then gave my details to the irish rail worker
Even after all this i still went downstairs and bought the ticket as i needed
it for work i get reimbursed for all traved expenses but i have to give in the ticket as a recipt

I wrote a strongly worded letter of complaint to customer services and registered delivery to customer services irish rail on 16th

on 22nd i got a fine in the post demanding €150 dated the 18th €100 for evasion and €50 for not giving my details
this letter said i while carring out their dutys revenue protection officers found me to be without a ticket ( I went to them )
it said i had 21 days to appeal

on the 24th i appealed to the revenue protection addressed on the fine by registered post just so i could say that i tried everything

The real sting in the tail came also on 24th i received a letter rejicting my appeal dated the 22nd thats 2 days before i sent the appeal

So now im in the unhappy position of looking for a solicitor to defend me should this go to court

I cannot express how utterly disgusted I am with the treatment i have recieved at the hands of irish rail and this shoddy attempt at a shake down
the accusation of being a fare evader and the attempted extortion of €150
with threats of court action if i dont just pay up

all backed up by an phantom appeals process which has already rejected your appeal before you even make it

Sorry about the long post folks but i really need to get this out of my system

[Colm Moore]

You don't mention which station.

Strictly speaking, you should have a ticket. However, in the circumstances, it would appear that it was impossible and the sign on the ticket gate suggested you could travel without one.

Did you happen to take any pictures?

Ask for the CCTV of the day to be retained as well as the logs for the ticket vending machine and the ticket barriers.

Originally Posted by scooby

Well in my honest opinion it was absolutly unjust
I went to a station 2 weeks ago for my journey to work when i got there it was unmanned security shutters down

There is the argument that the station was unattended and there is no legal obligation to use the ticket machines. However, that argument is weak and I would be loathe to recommend it.

Originally Posted by scooby

I tried to get a ticket from the vending machine but it just kept spitting the money back out nothing came up on the screen it just would not take the note

Had you selected a journey at this point? It won't take your money if you haven't selected a journey.

Are you saying you tried coins and notes (note that €50 notes will never be accepted for short journeys)?

I went back inside to see if there was anyone about the barriers were open and the machine display said no ticket required

This is rather damning for them.

I got on the dart thinking i could pay at pearse like i have done before
When i got off at pearse i immediatly went to the guy at the barrier and explained that the booking office in the station was closed and that the machine rejected my money which i showed him.

What do you mean "which i showed him"?

I asked for the gardai to be called as i was not going to give him my name i would only give it to the gardai as i has done nothing wrong ( in my opinion)

Did he actually ask for your name? Did he say it was an offence to not give your name?

Even after all this i still went downstairs and bought the ticket as i needed
it for work i get reimbursed for all traved expenses but i have to give in the ticket as a recipt

Try to bring that ticket with you if it ends up in court. Get a photocopy now and keep it.

The real sting in the tail came also on 24th i received a letter rejicting my appeal dated the 22nd thats 2 days before i sent the appeal

Was this a response to your letter to customer service?

So now im in the unhappy position of looking for a solicitor to defend me should this go to court

There are likely to be some solicitors there on the day. However, it would be useful to talk to the before the day. Talk to the usual district court criminal defence solicitors. It would be cheapest to find one who would be there anyway on the day dealing with other cases.

Realise that going to court risks a criminal conviction.

Buy a Leap Card. You can use the on-line log to claim your expenses from work, it they'll accept it.

[Traincustomer]

(Not advice but a relevant point to prevent needless problems through no fault of passengers)

There is surely an internal system for logging such instances e.g. TVM faults/ a member of staff rings in sick and the ticket office isn't opened at the usual time (am sure there's a history/log of each TVM and any faults kept).

However problems with ticket vending machines and ticket offices ought to be publically displayed on the website (possibly as part of the NTA contractual requirement). Have never seen any such info ever posted on the Irish Rail website - have seen info on lifts out of action and the like.

A glance at a website in Britain shows the sort of thing:

http://www.journeycheck.com/northernrail
Hartlepool Facilities: Ticket Vending Machine problem
At Hartlepool station.
The ticket vending machines are out of order.
Message Received :01/02/2013 08:29

[scooby]

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

You don't mention which station.

What do you mean "which i showed him"?

Did he actually ask for your name? Did he say it was an offence to not give your name


Buy a Leap Card. You can use the on-line log to claim your expenses from work, it they'll accept it.

It was Glenageary station

No he did not say it was an offence not to give your name

I cant use a leap card our accounts dept will only accept the actual ticket as a receipt

I did keep the ticket i bought after the incident

What i did not say in my earlier epic post was that the issue was indeed that it was a €50 note i did not know at that time it would not accept this as i never use the vending machines i usually pay at the hatch

I genuinely did not see any notice like the one in other stations that was pointed out to me by a friend after this happened

I went and had another look and there was a sticker up on the top of the machine not beside the display like others this notice was partially obscured by another sticker and nothing came up on the display of the machine i tried several times to put it through

I had no other cash or cards that i could use

My problem with this whole mess is that i made genuine efforts to buy a ticket which were refused

At no time did i try to evade paying
I could have just walked out behind someone else but i did not I actually required a ticket and i tried to buy one

I needed a ticket to get to and from work and i need the actual physical ticket in order to be reimbursed

I just will not accept that someone can call me a criminal & demand money from me and that i should just accept it and reward them for this
shut up and pay up attitude

The guy in the little office in pearse was not even remotely interested in listening to my side of the story he was writing the ticket before i had finished speaking he did not try to contact glenageary to see if there was anyone there

The guard that arrived said that was her third time there that morning for the same thing

If i was the third person that felt strongly enough to ask for the gardai to be called then how many people just accepted irish rails accusations and walked away

the law society journal done an article on this called ticket to ride
http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&tbo=d&sc...w=1280&bih=696

And clearly ( again in my opinion) indicates that it is not an offence to board a train without a ticket if the station is unmanned or you are unable to use the vending machine as long as you try to buy one as soon as you can on reaching your destination it is only an offence if you intend not to pay

Again i apologise for the long post