Rosslare line threat

[Goods]

https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-36366154.html

Surely a line that has operated for decades and managed to survive in all weathers can be protected in the 21st century. Rail to ports are a national asset in terms of strategic infrastructure and should be maintained as a priority. Instead we get such a warning without any plan to prevent the problem and preserve the line. CIE are masters at undermining the network firstly they claim a line is hard to maintain, then they reduce the service to a point where it is not adequate and then due to falling passenger numbers they propose closure. Rosslare is a critical port and more so now as a Brexit option for freight export avoiding UK. We should be opening lines to Rosslare not warning of closures. To think there was a Cork to Rosslare line in the 1960s that was a jewel running alongside the Blackwater river one can imagine what CIE is capable of deciding.

[comcor]

Where is the threat supposed to be?

Bray to Wicklow seems the biggest risk, but there hasn't been any talk of closing that line.

If it's the line through Wexford town, there are much bigger problems than a threatened railway line.

The only other place it gets very close to the coast is a short section between Rosslare Strand and Rosslare Harbour.

[ACustomer]

It's the section between the Strand and the harbour. There has been a lot of erosion long-term around that stretch. Suits some of the negative closure mentality of the powers that be.

[Goods]

Recently arrived in Rosslare on ferry and noticed no train to meet the boat despite many foot passengers and bikers with signs looking for lifts to places like Limerick, Cork,Waterford, Dublin etc. To think that not so long ago the rail service provided connections to all these places but we dismantled the rail connections. The rail station is almost anonymous at Rosslare barely a sign showing it , a clear indication that IE are running down the service so that soon they can indicate low usage data despite no trains to meet the ferry and no real service offered. Europort in name only as far as Irish Rail concerned.

[Mark Gleeson]

Plenty of trains meet the ferry

Weekdays

Departures for Fishguard from Rosslare are
08:00 (no connection)
18:10 (13:36 from Connolly arrives 16:20)

Departures for Pembroke from Rosslare are
08:45 (no connection)
20:45 (16:37 from Connolly arrives 19:21)

Arrivals from Fishguard at Rosslare
04:00 (05:41 to Dundalk)
16:25 (18:06 to Connolly)

Arrivals from Pembroke at Rosslare
06:46 (07:26 to Connolly)
18:46 (no connection)


Rail/Sail is only offered via Fishguard which 3 of the 4 daily arrivals/departures has a connection

[Inniskeen]

Think your times at Rosslare are a bit off. Anyway the point being made is that there are now no rail connections to the southwest which was always the principal orogin/destination on the Irish side for the Fishguard route.

I suppose the stand-out point is that Irish Rail have no ambitions for rail development of any sort at Rosslare, BREXIT or no BREXIT.

[Goods]

Exactly, unique infrastructure has been uprooted towarDs Rosslare including from Waterford and the fact that no train meets the French ferries means that it is an incomplete service so passengers have no potion but to find another way. In Cherbourg on the other side it’s the opposite case rail option working and available. Rosslare railway is going the way of many lines being gradually run down and can be justified by passenger numbers that simply reflect a poor service.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Goods

Exactly, unique infrastructure has been uprooted towarDs Rosslare including from Waterford and the fact that no train meets the French ferries means that it is an incomplete service so passengers have no potion but to find another way. In Cherbourg on the other side it’s the opposite case rail option working and available. Rosslare railway is going the way of many lines being gradually run down and can be justified by passenger numbers that simply reflect a poor service.

Erm there is a rail connection off the Irish Ferries sailing into Rosslare.

The ferries arrive from France at either 11:00 or 11:30. The train leaves at 12:55.

That allows for wriggle room if the ferry is late.

In the last year the Stena sailings between Rosslare and Fishguard have changed times and now 3 sailings out of 4 are rail connected at Rosslare.

Arrival Ex Fishguard at 04:00 (Rail connection at 05:35 Mon-Fri)
Arrival ex-Fishguard at 16:25 (Rail connection at 18:00 Mon-Sat; 17:40 Sun)

Departure ex-Fishguard at 18:10 (Rail connection arrives at 16:28 Mon-Sat; 16:35 Sun)

I'm not quite sure your doomsday statements about the Rosslare line have any basis in fact given that the number of rail connections have actually increased in the last year, not dropped.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

Think your times at Rosslare are a bit off. Anyway the point being made is that there are now no rail connections to the southwest which was always the principal orogin/destination on the Irish side for the Fishguard route.

I suppose the stand-out point is that Irish Rail have no ambitions for rail development of any sort at Rosslare, BREXIT or no BREXIT.

Would that not be a decision for the NTA given that they now specify service levels for all PSO services, be they bus or rail?

[Goods]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/plan...hness-1.623959
My point originated from seeing that no train met the incoming Stena ferry from France despite a host of people with signs looking for lifts to various parts of the country. If the service is not convenient why would anyone use it. Some of the departure times in the example look strage to me - Is some person going to stand around for one and a half hours waiting for a train to go?

The fact is that the running down of the connections to Rosslare did not begin today or yesterday its a continuous pattern over years. Previously Rosslare was connected to both Cork and Limerick through Waterford so the trend is clear.

Such recklessness is not the case either on the UK or the French side where rail to the ports is maintained including for freight but in IE the truck lobby is politically better connected.

[Eddie]

Regrettably there has been no service between Rosslare and Waterford for about 4 years and before this, there was only one return service daily for some time before this, which was inadequate.

There are plenty of ways governments can and do waste plenty of tax payers money, but IMHO providing 2 or 3 return journeys to Limerick Junction daily from Rosslare to provide connections to other parts of the country would not rank high amongst those, especially when the infrastructure is still in place.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Goods

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/plan...hness-1.623959
My point originated from seeing that no train met the incoming Stena ferry from France despite a host of people with signs looking for lifts to various parts of the country. If the service is not convenient why would anyone use it. Some of the departure times in the example look strage to me - Is some person going to stand around for one and a half hours waiting for a train to go?

The fact is that the running down of the connections to Rosslare did not begin today or yesterday its a continuous pattern over years. Previously Rosslare was connected to both Cork and Limerick through Waterford so the trend is clear.

Such recklessness is not the case either on the UK or the French side where rail to the ports is maintained including for freight but in IE the truck lobby is politically better connected.

That sailing arrives and departs only on three days of the week and it has completely different times each day - not exactly easy to produce a rail timetable around that and keep everyone else on the line happy. I think you’re expecting a bit much.

I think 90 mins is reasonable - that’s what’s offered at Fishguard and not far off it at Holyhead too. It allows wriggle time for ships/trains being late and for getting on and off the ship.

The fact remains that the connections at Rosslare to/from Dublin since May 2017 are substantially better than they have been for years, not worse as you are implying.

We need to be realistic too - foot passenger traffic has nosedived since Ryanair arrived - I think the connections offered now on the line to/from Dublin are as good as you’re probably going to get.

I don’t see the NTA reopening the South Wexford line at this stage unfortunately - I think that ship has sailed.

[Traincustomer]

The connectivity with the Fishguard sailings is indeed much better since May of last year but through ticketing ex-UK has still not been re-enabled (it was available in 2013).

A perusal of any of the UK-based sites such as National Rail Enquiries or Arriva Trains Wales gives, for instance, an absurd Carmarthen [CMN] to Wexford [WEX] journey of 19 to 21 hours routed via Holyhead! Talk about three sides of a square...

Whereas the journey from Carmarthen to Wexford via Fishguard-Rosslare is available twice a day taking just under 7.5 hrs daytime and just shy of 9 hours overnight.

Similarly one cannot purchase a SailRail ticket at any of the stations between Connolly and Rosslare.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

Similarly one cannot purchase a SailRail ticket at any of the stations between Connolly and Rosslare.

I think any manned station in the UK would be able to sell you a Sail Rail Ticket (as well as a ticket to any other station in the UK).

What's stopping for example Dun Laoghaire, Bray etc from issuing Sail Rail tickets or tickets to any other station in Ireland? Technology?

[Mark Gleeson]

There is a list of stations which can issue Sail Rails

http://www.irishrail.ie/rail-fares-a...lrail-uk-ferry

Can be purchased online with Irish Ferries or by phone with Irish Rail or Stena line

[berneyarms]

The issue is that using the Rosslare-Fishguard route it is impossible to buy a sail/rail ticket using any Irish station other than Rosslare Europort as the origin/destination, despite the connections being restored.

That is the problem - not which stations you can walk in and buy a ticket.

[Traincustomer]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I think any manned station in the UK would be able to sell you a Sail Rail Ticket (as well as a ticket to any other station in the UK).
What's stopping for example Dun Laoghaire, Bray etc from issuing Sail Rail tickets or tickets to any other station in Ireland? Technology?

That’s right Eddie regarding SailRail availability in the UK.

Years ago in the card ticket era one could buy a ticket from any station to any station including the UK yet despite all the investment in machines today
we have a situation where ticket vending machines are restricted to selling to stations on that line only…

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

There is a list of stations which can issue Sail Rails
http://www.irishrail.ie/rail-fares-a...lrail-uk-ferry
Can be purchased online with Irish Ferries or by phone with Irish Rail or Stena line

Thanks Mark however that list has remained unchanged for donkey’s years with not a single station retailing SailRail in either County Wicklow or Wexford... Actually O’Hanrahan station did sell them some years ago.
Stena Line only issue from Rosslare/Dublin Port onwards to the UK.

With all due respect Irish Ferries are irrelevant in this context as they don't offer SailRail via Rosslare-Pembroke (that route best caters for those using the Eurolines or Megabus coaches as the rail station is a mile distant from Pembroke Dock ferry terminal).

Originally Posted by berneyarms

The issue is that using the Rosslare-Fishguard route it is impossible to buy a sail/rail ticket using any Irish station other than Rosslare Europort as the origin/destination, despite the connections being restored.
That is the problem - not which stations you can walk in and buy a ticket.

May I ask the source of your information please?

I have personally purchased tickets (at Connolly) for travel from a station on the Dublin-Connolly line to a UK station via Rosslare-Fishguard without any issue.
Indeed the Irish Rail website currently mentions a Wexford – Cardiff ticket…

Dublin to London €47 each way
Cork to Manchester €61 each way
Galway to Liverpool €61 each way
Limerick to Birmingham €62 each way
Wexford to Cardiff €51 each way

(link above to Irish Rail SailRail page)

[berneyarms]

Try doing it online via the arriva trains wales website.

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail will issue a ticket for any routing you want, via Rosslare or Dublin

On the UK side its dependent on the train timetable being loaded by the UK operators, this is not something Irish Rail is enforcing, the responsibility is with ATW.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Irish Rail will issue a ticket for any routing you want, via Rosslare or Dublin

On the UK side its dependent on the train timetable being loaded by the UK operators, this is not something Irish Rail is enforcing, the responsibility is with ATW.

I know all of that - my point all along was - if you want to do online you can’t due to ATW not enabling it.