Rail Users Ireland Forum

Go Back   Rail Users Ireland Forum > Irish Rail Customer Service Issues > Commuter Services > Mallow-Cork-Cobh/Midleton
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Unread 12-12-2007, 12:44   #1
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default Reliability of Cork Cobh Services

The grapevine is telling us that there have been a fair few cancellations on the Cork Cobh in recent days

Anyone out there in cyberspace have experience of this?
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Unread 05-01-2008, 20:06   #2
ccos
Member
 
ccos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kazbegi
Posts: 281
Default

Over Christmas there was a notice in Cobh station saying that the 19.30 & 20.30 ex cobh were replaced by buses and so presumably the 19.00 and 20.00 ex Cork would be buses as well.
I used the train quiet a few times over Christmas and they were generally very punctual with only 5 minute delays on the evening rush hour ones from mallow, this was caused by the CDE sitting on platform 4 and so forcing both the Cobh and Mallow bound trains to use platform 5, I don't know where the crossover is on the north side of Cork, is it in the tunnel or further out????

On a different subject sombody has laid some blue electrical cable on stakes along the Midleton track from Cobh Junction.
ccos is offline  
Unread 06-01-2008, 12:31   #3
Colm Moore
Local Liaison Officer
 
Colm Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,442
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccos View Post
I don't know where the crossover is on the north side of Cork, is it in the tunnel or further out????
Just between the station and the tunnel in the open section / under the bridge.

I imagine there is another north of the tunnel.
Colm Moore is offline  
Unread 07-01-2008, 21:52   #4
Derek Wheeler
Registered user
 
Derek Wheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kildare
Posts: 1,555
Default

Screw the crossover. Who cares!

All Dublin bound services are working the new timetable now. However this is as a result of some Mallow and Cobh services being cancelled, with continued bus substitution. In order to protect the integrity of Cork - Dublin services, IE management have conceeded to Driver wishes on rosters. (amazing how they couldn't do that a month ago ) For the next 2 weeks at least, local Cork services will be disrupted as drivers are rostered to intercity services. After that Dublin crews will be used to bring balance to the disputed roster, with a final solution planned after that.

Keep an eye on the IE web site to see if they mention cancelled cobh services on Sunday mornings.

There are also reports of crossing keepers not working the new timetable as management failed to engage with them in relation to changes in working hours.
Derek Wheeler is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 10:55   #5
ThomasJ
Member
 
ThomasJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Clonsilla
Posts: 2,811
Default

From Breaking News - Sunday 17th February 2008

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mheysnmhkfsn/

Quote:

Union and Irish rail to meet to resolve dispute
17/02/2008 - 21:27:24

Unions and management at Irish Rail will meet tomorrow in a bid to resolve unofficial industrial action.

The dispute began when the company introduced its new roster for trains operating between Cork and Cobh last December.

Some train services on the Cork to Cobh line were cancelled today, with passengers being transferred by bus instead.

Some drivers at Cork station are refusing to operate the new schedule and are continuing to operate the old one.

Trains cancelled today were the 7.30am, 9.30am, and 11.30am service from Cobh to Cork, and the 10.30am and 2pm service from Cork to Dublin.

A bus transfer has been in operation since the dispute arose in December and tomorrow's talks are aimed at bringing an end to the current impasse.
ThomasJ is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 10:58   #6
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default

Its not industrial action, working your agreed work and nothing more is fully legal

The question to ask is why Irish Rail pushed ahead with a timetable without staff agreement
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 11:56   #7
ACustomer
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 737
Default

Sorry, but the unions/staff do not run the company (or should not). I work in the public sector, and when my timetable changes, I am expected to get on with it.
ACustomer is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 12:15   #8
ThomasJ
Member
 
ThomasJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Clonsilla
Posts: 2,811
Default

Quote:
Sorry, but the unions/staff do not run the company (or should not). I work in the public sector, and when my timetable changes, I am expected to get on with it.
But does your timetable work around overtime? I know that some companies do place an onus on OT for staff, but is this a mandatory requirement for CIE Staff? I thought that was option? If that was the case, then you cannot blame staff for not taking up the option....
ThomasJ is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 12:27   #9
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default

That depends on the contract, if it says you have to work x you have to work x, while I was in the private sector my contract clearly stated my hours of work, with little tolerance.

However where there is a long standing practice of rosters being agreed and voted on before introduction it is bad business to publicly commit to services which there is no agreement to run.

One of the key issues ongoing here is not strictly the rosters but the fact staff are being put under pressure to work rest days to cover for the lack of staff, thats what is cancelling the 6:30 and 17:35 trains.

Drivers are entitled to have 2 days a week off one of which is to fall on a weekend, there is a hint at a need to work possibly 6 rest days a year, in a safety driven business rest days are important, note the strict regulations applied to aircraft pilots, its the same kind of thing, the first thing you will see in most rail accident reports is the shift pattern of the drivers involved
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 14:19   #10
ACustomer
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 737
Default

Can I qoute from the Breaking News item referred to earlier: "Some drivers at Cork station are refusing to operate the new schedule and are continuing to operate the old one."

This implies that it is newly-timetabled trains which are bsing singled out, and not simply overtime being refused. Unless of course it just happens that trains new to the timetable are those which also involve overtime or rest-day working, etc. Somehow, this seems to be a bit of a co-incidence. I would still maintain that the ethos of a Union-run company is what we have in IE, and that it is not how things should be run.

Of course you need competent management as well.......
ACustomer is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 14:37   #11
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default

The new services require more staff to work than before, so there is a need for an extra driver to drive one of the Sunday morning Cork Dublin Cork runs

The issue of Cork - Cobh is more a case of prioritisation to avoid canceling Dublin Cork trains

Its not some staff in Cork, its a lot of staff in Cork, Dublin and possibly Limerick. Thanks to the Ennis line being closed Limerick hasn't been a problem.

If the staff aren't rested fully there is a higher risk of accidents, staff angry at rosters, proceedures and so are not likely to be the most customer friendly either. Happy rested staff are better for passengers.

Basic fact is Irish Rail don't have enough drivers to cover the services without going to overtime and rest days. Its been a serious ongoing problem for years in Dublin. The closed shop recruitment policy prevents fully quailified drivers from other EU countries (particularly the UK) directly entering the driving grade, an NIR driver fully quailified would have to sweep platforms first and apply despite being certified to drive on the Irish Rail rule book.

Anyone remember the winter of madness 2000/2001 when the DART went nuts due to driver shortages, IE had to completely change the recruitment policies to make it much easier to drive a DART.

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 18-02-2008 at 14:39.
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 15:28   #12
ACustomer
Really Regular Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 737
Default

Now we seem to be getting to the nub of the matter: "The closed shop recruitment policy prevents fully quailified drivers from other EU countries (particularly the UK) directly entering the driving grade, an NIR driver fully quailified would have to sweep platforms first and apply despite being certified to drive on the Irish Rail rule book".

Will anyone challenge this, in the courts, or somewhere in the EU bureaucracy? Given that we are making comparisons with airline pilots, it's truly bizzare and indefensible.
ACustomer is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 15:36   #13
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default

EU are addressing this through a certification arrangement

Closed shop arrangement are not illegal

However beyond the basic skills of controlling a train things are very different in the rest of Europe in terms of proceedure. UK and Irish practice are still very similar though Irish Rail has an edge on some safety features

Passenger don't care about how a driver gets to be a driver, they just need to be reassured there are a enough of them to provide a full timetable
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 19:33   #14
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default

Quote:
Union and Irish rail to meet to resolve dispute
17/02/2008 - 21:27:24

Unions and management at Irish Rail will meet tomorrow in a bid to resolve unofficial industrial action.
Just like the trains we don't know if the meeting actually happened
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 19:47   #15
Thomas Ralph
IT Officer
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Greenwich, London
Posts: 1,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Drivers are entitled to have 2 days a week off one of which is to fall on a weekend
Is that a safety or contract thing? The Organization of Working Time Act 1997 gives 2 days off a fortnight.
Thomas Ralph is offline  
Unread 18-02-2008, 19:52   #16
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default

The rest day arrangement is agreed by IE, the unions and signed off on by a third party safety consultancy

I have the bones of the agreement buried somewhere, its quite clear

Working time act sets down the absolute minmum standards
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Unread 20-02-2008, 16:10   #17
Colm Moore
Local Liaison Officer
 
Colm Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,442
Default

"A happy railway is a safe railway" as they say.
Colm Moore is offline  
Unread 20-02-2008, 16:17   #18
Mark Gleeson
Technical Officer
 
Mark Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coach C, Seat 33
Posts: 12,642
Default

Exactly, also has a positive impact on passenger experience

While we are a passenger representive group, safety comes before everything else
Mark Gleeson is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:55.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.