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Unread 16-02-2018, 10:37   #1
Thomas J Stamp
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Default Ireland 2040 - Rail Elements.

It hasnt been officially announced yet and the websire is down (great start).

http://npf.ie/about/

from listening to the radio this morning and other speculation it could be -
  1. Metro North
  2. DART expansion
  3. Rumours of "surburban rail investment" in Cork/Limerick/Galway
  4. Something about "Light Rail" in Cork
  5. Presumably another re-announcement of DART underground.
What do we think will be in this? Or should be in this?


What will be not in it?
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Unread 16-02-2018, 11:14   #2
comcor
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For Cork, I guess it's a case of extra stations on the existing lines - Carrigtwohill West, Dunkettle, Tivoli, Kilbarry, Monard, Blarney and maybe Ballynoe or Grenagh [these last two would require land around them to get zoned though]. Electrification would be helpful for a better service. Electrify Cork-Mallow and Dublin-Port Laoise and you haven't got that much of a gap in between.

For Galway, it's hard to see much scope except maybe stations in Roscam and Renmore. Those aren't going to do much for most commuters though, so you'd question whether the small numbers who may use it for social visits to the city centre justifies the investment. The rail line is far enough from GMIT and NUIG that buses are likely to be preferable for people going to those. There would also need to be a calculation about whether stopping the train more often would be a disincentive for those living out in Oranmore and Athenry.

Limerick could have a quite nice suburban rail network just by building stations on existing lines and investing in rolling stock that can actually accelerate. They are fortunate that very little of their rail infrastructure was ripped up. Costs would be low, but densities would have to increase hugely to make it operationally viable, as unlike Cork, there are limited existing services that could be asked to make extra stops.

Last edited by comcor : 16-02-2018 at 11:16.
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Unread 16-02-2018, 11:14   #3
ThomasJ
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yeah a few interesting bits alright about this

Quote:
[*]Metro North
Supposedly gone and replaced with Dublin Metro. That will run Swords to Sandyford via Airport. Wonder how this will impact the Green Luas line.

Quote:
[*]DART expansion
Strangely the only area of this i've heard of is Drogheda?

Quote:
[*]Rumours of "surburban rail investment" in Cork/Limerick/Galway
This would be good news. Certainly Galway Commuter would have been better than the WRC

Quote:
[*]Something about "Light Rail" in Cork
Another bit of positive news if it happens

Quote:
[*]Presumably another re-announcement of DART underground.
This i'm worried about. I'm worried they may be using the PPT in place of this. Is it true as well if this happens Hazelhatch won't get DART services as the tunnel is not compatible?
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Unread 16-02-2018, 11:40   #4
comcor
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Is there any possibility of electrification for Dublin-Cork/Limerick or Dublin-Belfast?

Timing electrification to coincide with the end of life of the 201s would make sense.
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Unread 16-02-2018, 12:13   #5
James Shields
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Metro North/Dublin Metro: I always thought terminating at Stephen's Green was a short sighted plan, so extending South makes sense. I assume it can't be taking over the Green line, as if it was, the destination would be Cherrywood or even Brey. However Sandyford seems an odd destination, as it's hard to see a route that doesn't shadow the Green line. I would have thought Harold's Cross, Terenure and out towards Firhouse and Tallaght would have been a sensible option.

DART Expansion: I see mention of Drogheda and Maynooth, but no mention of the Kildare line.

DART Underground: No mention that I've seen. I saw some options for a "cut price interconnector", including a tunnel from Heuston terminating under Pearse, which would seem to miss the point to me.

Electrification of Belfast/Cork/Limerick: I certainly think this should be in a 23 year infrastructure plan, and I would see it as essential for meeting our climate change commitments, but I very much doubt we'll see anything with so much foresight.
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Unread 16-02-2018, 12:19   #6
Mark Gleeson
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Grapevine has been looking at Metro tie in somewhere near Beachwood, timing issue due development of the Irish Nationwide block on Grand Parade, they need to lock this down ASAP if going ahead as a deep basement could cause issues

DART undergound is all but sunk thanks in no small part to the last decade of poor management and union infighting

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 16-02-2018 at 12:26.
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Unread 16-02-2018, 13:25   #7
James Shields
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So is the proposal for Metro and Luas to share tracks? My understanding of the term "Metro" is total segregation from other forms of transport. I think the number of road crossings on the Green line alignment would make it problematic for a Metro route. Having to intersperse Metro trains with Green line trams would strike me as unworkable, and would severely limit the speed and frequency of the Metro service.
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Unread 16-02-2018, 13:30   #8
Jamie2k9
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A second metro route which includes Heuston stop or even terminus in the area would be a far better spend than DU. I fully get the benefits of DU but is two different underground systems really necessary.

Quote:
Is there any possibility of electrification for Dublin-Cork/Limerick or Dublin-Belfast?

Timing electrification to coincide with the end of life of the 201s would make sense.
Well you could in theory be waiting 20+ years for that based on 071 class.

I hope IE (NTA) are monitoring the roll out Hitachi Class 801 (EMU) and 802 (BMMU) across mainlines in the UK which appears to be a good train overall. Cannot see full electrification of a route been completed end to end for a long time and bi mode will be needed.
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Luas to Finglas/Poolbeg are pretty much straight forward projects. Lucan would be a very good addition and take pressure off the Red Line between Heuston-Connolly.

Quote:
So is the proposal for Metro and Luas to share tracks? My understanding of the term "Metro" is total segregation from other forms of transport. I think the number of road crossings on the Green line alignment would make it problematic for a Metro route. Having to intersperse Metro trains with Green line trams would strike me as unworkable, and would severely limit the speed and frequency of the Metro service.
That media proposal a few weeks ago could never work impossible.

Quote:
Or should be in this?
An attempt to add third rail to part of Northern Line and improve DART/Commuter/Enterprise.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 16-02-2018 at 13:53.
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Unread 16-02-2018, 18:18   #9
niallm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Grapevine has been looking at Metro tie in somewhere near Beachwood, timing issue due development of the Irish Nationwide block on Grand Parade, they need to lock this down ASAP if going ahead as a deep basement could cause issues
The big mystery to me is what DART station it connects to. It's supposed to cross the Liffey West of Rosie Hackett bridge, according to what I've seen, and join up a Beechwood... which either means it veers strongly east after the Mater (and back again), or strongly east after SSG? But neither of those look practical to me.
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