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Unread 19-04-2006, 14:02   #21
Colm Donoghue
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I was on the 18:15 Pearse Drogheda last night. The train overshot the platform at Rush and Lusk, The doors didn't open for a good while, then the driver announced for passengers at the first door not to get off and get off at the rear door of the first car. I was getting off at the rear door anyway.
I got a poor phonecamera shot of the front of the train, I lost the number of the second car in the train though.
Should I contact the rsc or is this too little info to go on?

On another note, it's good to see the rsc are so easy to find, with their website and all.... not.
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Unread 19-04-2006, 14:42   #22
PaulM
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Send it all in anyway. The more the merrier.
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Unread 19-04-2006, 14:46   #23
Mark Gleeson
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Once you have the number of any of the 4 leading coaches that all the last 2 digits reveal the set number in almost all cases

In this case the driver did make a PA and the overrun was less than a coach length its not worth reporting, if no PA was made it would have been worth reporting
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Unread 19-04-2006, 15:28   #24
philip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson
Once you have the number of any of the 4 leading coaches that all the last 2 digits reveal the set number in almost all cases

In this case the driver did make a PA and the overrun was less than a coach length its not worth reporting, if no PA was made it would have been worth reporting
I'd have to disagree Mark. Making a PA is the least he should do after the train has overshot the platform. What if the only passenger in the leading coach was deaf and was disembarking at the front door, then the PA would be useless and Mr. deaf passenger falls out into the darkness (and what if the driver doesn't see that?). It seems it happens often enough when our small group here can report two overshoots in as many months. There must be many more. Report it I say.
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Unread 19-04-2006, 15:58   #25
Mark Gleeson
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I've witnessed 1 full coach length overshoot in 20 odd years and I've experienced 1 half coach length overshoot, both where due to poor adhesion conditions and the anit lock brakes did there job, both where same day on the same train, same driver 10 minutes apart, I also experienced a 100m slide at 50mph due to leaves but the driver stopped inch perfect. They are uncommon, typically more common in the autumn but still very rare

Each incident is different but in the scheme of things a 10 m overshoot, where the train was held, passengers informed then doors released is very minor compared to a full coach overshoot with no pa and instant door release
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Unread 19-04-2006, 16:05   #26
PaulM
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I've experienced a carriage overshoot and a full train overshoot. The carriage one is this thread. The train one me and several others went up to the driver. He wreaked of whiskey. I think it should be reported as for all we know it is the same driver in all these instances. He could be an alco for all we know (if my job was that easy I probably would be ).

Yes this is worst case scenario and probably unlikely but reporting it can not hurt. Not repoting it could.
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Unread 19-04-2006, 17:25   #27
philip
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Exactly Paul, the RSC needs to build up a picture of these incidents and if a particualr driver is having 'minor' overshoots every so often then perhaps he needs additional training or counselling. If nothing is reported it all looks fine and dandy and someday the overshoot could be something more serious and there could be casualties. Best report everything.
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Unread 19-04-2006, 23:19   #28
craigybagel
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It happened to me about 6 years ago but i didnt make an issue of it at the time because i thought it was a regular occurence!
Train was 7:05 Drogheda-Pearse or thereabouts (the only cravens operated train at the time in the morning peak) and it over shot Howth Junction by a coach and a half.The train had about 15 people standing in the first coach where i was and people for the junction had to very quickly fight their way 2 carriages down the train to get off.
Of course being cravens no announcement or isolation of the doors was possible.Just a lucky thing it wasnt mid winter when that train runs in darkness!
Now i moved house shortly after so only spend one year commuting outside the dart area yet i still experienced a serious over shoot. A statistical anomaly or is there a potentially serious problem here, particularly with vacuam braked stock.
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Unread 20-04-2006, 10:42   #29
Mark Gleeson
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Overshoots are categorised as follows

Lead passenger door of lead coach was beyond the yellow line on the end of the platform, many stations the locomotive will be stopped beyond platform (e.g. Thurles). At certain stations Templemore in particular Dublin bound it is permissable to overshoot the station such that the restaurant car is at the platform, typically to load/unload a wheelchair Templemore being fully accessible

The causes can be defined simply as

1 Adhesion Related
Leaves, water, oil, ice on rail leading to loss of braking performance or wheelslide

2 Driver Error
Driver misjudgement of braking distance required, can be caused by lack of attention, honest misjudgement or failure to understand gradients which impact heavily on distances. It takes several seconds on a locomotive hauled train to reach full braking up to 9 seconds in fact, modern railcar/dart units its within 3 seconds as they have electro pneumatic valves. 60mph is 27 meters/second

3 Failure of braking system
Incredibly rare as the systems legally are required to be failsafe, even under degraded conditions the braking system will still stop the train within the prescribed distances of the signalling system.

The chances of a overshoot happening under normal conditions are remote, I'd given you 1 in 50,000 upwards of an overshoot on approach to a platform there was a time not so long ago the odds of an accident on certain lines was well below that. I'll look up the audits to see what the acceptable level is

BTW cravens coaches do have a PA system, its just the guards van has no microphone!

Its hard to judge when to file a official complaint, if a PA is made explaining the situation, doors are not unlocked until after the PA and you don't need to resort to walking to the next coach I wouldn't be complaining unless the driver behaviour was abnormal

With regard to the situations described

Grand Canal Dock, yes complaint warranted
Rush and Lusk, no unless other factors such as unusual driving style
Howth Junction, yes without question very serious dangerous spot to dismount trackside if it came to that

If you do wish to complain to make it stick
Date, time and location (specific platform number)
Destination of the train you are on
Type of train (if known)
Number of either of the first two coaches if a (railcar/dart)
Weather conditions (wet/dry/fog/drizzle etc)
Opinion on approach to station, (fast/normal)
Aftermath of incident (pa/train set back etc)
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Unread 24-04-2006, 11:03   #30
MrX
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The last time I took a Cork-Dublin train the first coach of the MK3 set's door closest to the locomotive was off the end of the platform at the tunnel mouth at the end of Kent Station and the door was fully open. I'm not 100% sure why this was the case, surely they could have backed up a few more meters.
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Unread 25-04-2006, 09:57   #31
James Shields
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Yesterday, I was on the 19:15 Pearse to Drogheda (I was in the lead coach, 29104). It stopped in Portmarnock, and the front door was just beyond the end of the platform, over the sloping ramp. I don't think there was any safety concern, but if someone didn't look before stepping out they could be surprised to find themselves on a ramp rather than a level platform.
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Unread 28-04-2006, 19:16   #32
craigybagel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrX
The last time I took a Cork-Dublin train the first coach of the MK3 set's door closest to the locomotive was off the end of the platform at the tunnel mouth at the end of Kent Station and the door was fully open. I'm not 100% sure why this was the case, surely they could have backed up a few more meters.
Seems to be the norm at Cork on the CityGold sets so i would presume the platform isnt long enough?
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Unread 30-04-2006, 18:40   #33
Mark Gleeson
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Done some research on this as always Roger Ford in the UK has the stats. Considering UK practice and platforms match Ireland the stats are comparable

Event passenger fall out/alights from train onto track at station

1.079 * 10^-9 events per passenger journey

Basically one in a billion chance of a fall or injury

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 01-05-2006 at 11:36.
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Unread 03-05-2006, 15:30   #34
Mark Gleeson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
Was there an 'L' sticker on the front window of the train?
That was a funny remark until the unimaginable happened, I saw a DART doing a driver training run and in the back window, L plate no joking
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Unread 03-05-2006, 15:45   #35
PaulM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson
Event passenger fall out/alights from train onto track at station

1.079 * 10^-9 events per passenger journey

Basically one in a billion chance of a fall or injury
What is 'Track' does that mean the gound or the rail side? If a carriage skips the platform, is that track or does this equation only count those who fall onto the 'wrong' side of the train?
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Unread 03-05-2006, 15:57   #36
Mark Gleeson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mulcahy
What is 'Track' does that mean the gound or the rail side? If a carriage skips the platform, is that track or does this equation only count those who fall onto the 'wrong' side of the train?
The numbers relate to a passenger disemarking onto the railway, which is normally the wrong side, in the case of Grand Canal Dock this is true as there is an active railway track both sides

The stat is correct as UK info shows one such fatality in 2003 for 1 billion carried
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Unread 03-05-2006, 21:08   #37
PaulM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson
The stat is correct as UK info shows one such fatality in 2003 for 1 billion carried
I'm sure it is true but skipping a carriage and getting out of the wrong side are very different things.
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