CDE Cork Dublin Express train to enter service

Mark Gleeson · 05-02-2006, 22:37

Just received word from a usually reliable source that

Iarnrod Eireann will attempt to introduce ONE new CDE Cork Dublin Express train set tomorrow

We don't know which service but it is likely to be starting from Dublin so its either the 7am, 9am or 11am

You heard it here first

Of course this is subject to change and no guarantees

Well cool its post 2000 as well

Mark Gleeson · 06-02-2006, 00:20

Its now either the 7am or 9am as the 11am will be delayed by engineering works

ACustomer · 06-02-2006, 09:53

I like the way you say "attempt" to introduce a CDE set. Sounds like you have great confidence in IE!

Seriously, I am a little surprised at just one set. As far as I am aware at least 4 sets have been delivered to date. The 7.00 ex Dublin is one of the CityGold sets, (each of which does 3 journeys per day) and it alternates with the 0700 ex Cork. Maybe they will introduce one CDE to-morrow and another the day after, thus establishing two alternating sets in service to replace the CityGolds.

But maybe that's being too rational.

Maskhadov · 06-02-2006, 09:57

anyone going to take any pictures ?

Mark Gleeson · 06-02-2006, 10:06

We got a call last night stating a strong possibilty of a CDE set entering service on Monday. If it appears we will know. To be honest we where expecting a full media circus to milk the moment but CIE and IE have always been low key, the first passenger DART service left Pearse on July 23rd 1984 just before 7am with no cermony just like 150 years before no big deal. Big bang introductions tend to leave egg on face.

There may be 4 sets here but only 1 is ready to roll as the others still have to complete mileage accumulation. Normal game plan is to introduce a single set and see how things go passengers are great for breaking things as they stress test things like doors and toliets.

Mark · 06-02-2006, 10:13

Do you know how much mileage Mark?

Mark Gleeson · 06-02-2006, 11:11

Something like 10,000 km running with 4,000 km fault free thats 19 full round trips Dublin Cork, a service train currently only manages 1.5 round trips a day

Thomas J Stamp · 10-02-2006, 11:27

I have seen one of the CDE's going past my house at night. It seems to be a lot brighter inside and also the yellow signs on the sides were working. Also it was going at full pelt and sounded different to other trains.

Mark Gleeson · 10-02-2006, 11:46

There seems to be a regular run which leaves Inchicore after 7pm

All the house lights have been on as has the full information system they seem to be shadow running after certain Cork services

The only oustanding concern is with the new train is the number of seats, a standard Cork train is nine coaches, 6 standards + buffet + first + gen van, about 500 seats but the new Cork train is 8 coaches, only 5 standards so you are short about 80 seats thats not an issue when running hourly buts its a problem currently.

They may form the sets into 9 coach sets till hourly begins they may not its a step back if they don't

James Shields · 10-02-2006, 12:20

Quote:

They may form the sets into 9 coach sets till hourly begins they may not its a step back if they don't

Even after hourly running, there will be certain services that will have higher demands. Would it be possible to have a couple of 9-coach sets for those trains or would that mess up the whole thing of running identicle sets?

Does a CDE coach have the smae number of seats as a Mk3?

ACustomer · 10-02-2006, 12:55

Lostcarpark: when the service goes hourly, 9-coach sets will be neither possible nor advisable. While some services (say the 1700 down) may experience excess demand, other services provided by the same link will not, and it's out of the question to shunt a set just to add or subtract a coach (what's the point of push-pull in that case?).

Furthermore with hourly services it appears that there will be 8 eight-coach sets: 7 will be in use and one will be spare/in maintenance on any weekday. This leaves 3 more spare vehicles to make up the full order of 67. I assume these are a DVT a diner and an end coach, as it's a bit of a disaster to run short of one of these.

The problems of excess peak-hour demand should be solved by on-line reservations and clever peak-load pricing. This might also make IE money: after all it's what very commercially successful arilines do.

ACustomer · 10-02-2006, 12:57

I forgot to ask in my last post: Did the CDE actually go into service this week as forecast at the beginning of this thread?

Mark Gleeson · 10-02-2006, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostcarpark

Does a CDE coach have the smae number of seats as a Mk3?

Roughly, the wheelchair space and toilet take up a few seats thats the only difference

To run an hourly timetable you need 7 working sets, there are 8 full sets on order plus 3 spare standards.

It may be possible to increase 2 sets up to 6 standard coaches but that leaves things very tight the trick being to roster the sets correctly you wouldn't swap coaches around during the day. With seat reservations etc varying the train length lead to trouble. Now if you could bring the journey time down from 2:40 to 2:20 you would need only 6 working sets which would make longer trains possible, the shorter time would increase demand as well

Of course a shorter train weighs less and accelerates faster which gives you shorter times without spending money on the track

ACustomer · 10-02-2006, 15:26

All 3 spare coaches are standards ??!! This looks very short-sighted. Surely the DVTs are (a) absolutely indispensible to the running of any and every CDE train and (b) are easily the most complicated part of the kit with lots of thing which can go wrong. Madness not having 10 of them.

Mark Gleeson · 10-02-2006, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACustomer

All 3 spare coaches are standards ??!! This looks very short-sighted. Surely the DVTs are (a) absolutely indispensible to the running of any and every CDE train and (b) are easily the most complicated part of the kit with lots of thing which can go wrong. Madness not having 10 of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

To run an hourly timetable you need 7 working sets, there are 8 full sets on order plus 3 spare standards.

Makes perfect sense, there is one full spare train plus 3 further standards, there are 43 standard coaches out of a total of 67 so it is right to more spares. The enterprise setup has one single spare of each type, there is no fallback. IE learned the leasons from that and now there is one full spare set full a few of the most common coach type. It would of course by lovely to have heaps of spares but try selling that to the DoT

Mark Gleeson · 10-02-2006, 20:19

Latest update suggest Irish Rail will introduce one set for customer evaluation in the next week or so

In plain english that mean on days when they feel like it on quiet service they might try out the new set

A bit late for customer evaluation at least NIR had a massive customer consultation before they ordered there new trains

Derek Wheeler · 10-02-2006, 21:07

"a period of in-service trials"

Thats the official line from IE as of today.
So its a case of catch it if you can. As soon as we have exact times we'll endeavour to notify those interested. They look great (except for the freight loco at one end

) and like many others, Im looking forward to using them.

Please note P11 will be reviewing this new stock on the basis of what they offer the customer in terms of comfort and on board facilities. More technical reviews from board members can be posted at will.

Mark Gleeson · 10-02-2006, 21:23

In the interests of passenger accessibility, infomation and legal compliance we have 19 page long checklist waiting to go. We already have identified a number of issues

A ride report from a MK3 service has been prepared to evaluate ride comfort. The MK3 BT10/22 is the accepted benchmark for ride quality

Seat and table spacing on the MK3 fleet has been recorded for comparision

As soon as we get word a team will deploy quietly in mystery shopper mode. And in best tradition the measuring tape is coming

PaulM · 17-02-2006, 16:43

Are they running now? Has anyone here (Mark

) been on one yet?

Thomas J Stamp · 17-02-2006, 16:51

there were two of them loitering around inchicore wednesday

05-02-2006, 22:37	#1
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	CDE Cork Dublin Express train to enter service Just received word from a usually reliable source that Iarnrod Eireann will attempt to introduce ONE new CDE Cork Dublin Express train set tomorrow We don't know which service but it is likely to be starting from Dublin so its either the 7am, 9am or 11am You heard it here first Of course this is subject to change and no guarantees Well cool its post 2000 as well Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 05-02-2006 at 22:49.

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06-02-2006, 00:20	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its now either the 7am or 9am as the 11am will be delayed by engineering works

06-02-2006, 09:53	#3
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	I like the way you say "attempt" to introduce a CDE set. Sounds like you have great confidence in IE! Seriously, I am a little surprised at just one set. As far as I am aware at least 4 sets have been delivered to date. The 7.00 ex Dublin is one of the CityGold sets, (each of which does 3 journeys per day) and it alternates with the 0700 ex Cork. Maybe they will introduce one CDE to-morrow and another the day after, thus establishing two alternating sets in service to replace the CityGolds. But maybe that's being too rational.

06-02-2006, 09:57	#4
Maskhadov Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74	anyone going to take any pictures ?

06-02-2006, 10:06	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	We got a call last night stating a strong possibilty of a CDE set entering service on Monday. If it appears we will know. To be honest we where expecting a full media circus to milk the moment but CIE and IE have always been low key, the first passenger DART service left Pearse on July 23rd 1984 just before 7am with no cermony just like 150 years before no big deal. Big bang introductions tend to leave egg on face. There may be 4 sets here but only 1 is ready to roll as the others still have to complete mileage accumulation. Normal game plan is to introduce a single set and see how things go passengers are great for breaking things as they stress test things like doors and toliets.

06-02-2006, 10:13	#6
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern line Posts: 1,311	Do you know how much mileage Mark?

06-02-2006, 11:11	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Something like 10,000 km running with 4,000 km fault free thats 19 full round trips Dublin Cork, a service train currently only manages 1.5 round trips a day

10-02-2006, 11:27	#8
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	I have seen one of the CDE's going past my house at night. It seems to be a lot brighter inside and also the yellow signs on the sides were working. Also it was going at full pelt and sounded different to other trains.

10-02-2006, 11:46	#9
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	There seems to be a regular run which leaves Inchicore after 7pm All the house lights have been on as has the full information system they seem to be shadow running after certain Cork services The only oustanding concern is with the new train is the number of seats, a standard Cork train is nine coaches, 6 standards + buffet + first + gen van, about 500 seats but the new Cork train is 8 coaches, only 5 standards so you are short about 80 seats thats not an issue when running hourly buts its a problem currently. They may form the sets into 9 coach sets till hourly begins they may not its a step back if they don't

10-02-2006, 12:55	#11
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Lostcarpark: when the service goes hourly, 9-coach sets will be neither possible nor advisable. While some services (say the 1700 down) may experience excess demand, other services provided by the same link will not, and it's out of the question to shunt a set just to add or subtract a coach (what's the point of push-pull in that case?). Furthermore with hourly services it appears that there will be 8 eight-coach sets: 7 will be in use and one will be spare/in maintenance on any weekday. This leaves 3 more spare vehicles to make up the full order of 67. I assume these are a DVT a diner and an end coach, as it's a bit of a disaster to run short of one of these. The problems of excess peak-hour demand should be solved by on-line reservations and clever peak-load pricing. This might also make IE money: after all it's what very commercially successful arilines do.

10-02-2006, 12:57	#12
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	I forgot to ask in my last post: Did the CDE actually go into service this week as forecast at the beginning of this thread?

10-02-2006, 15:26	#14
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	All 3 spare coaches are standards ??!! This looks very short-sighted. Surely the DVTs are (a) absolutely indispensible to the running of any and every CDE train and (b) are easily the most complicated part of the kit with lots of thing which can go wrong. Madness not having 10 of them.

10-02-2006, 20:19	#16
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Latest update suggest Irish Rail will introduce one set for customer evaluation in the next week or so In plain english that mean on days when they feel like it on quiet service they might try out the new set A bit late for customer evaluation at least NIR had a massive customer consultation before they ordered there new trains

10-02-2006, 21:07	#17
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	"a period of in-service trials" Thats the official line from IE as of today. So its a case of catch it if you can. As soon as we have exact times we'll endeavour to notify those interested. They look great (except for the freight loco at one end ) and like many others, Im looking forward to using them. Please note P11 will be reviewing this new stock on the basis of what they offer the customer in terms of comfort and on board facilities. More technical reviews from board members can be posted at will.

10-02-2006, 21:23	#18
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	In the interests of passenger accessibility, infomation and legal compliance we have 19 page long checklist waiting to go. We already have identified a number of issues A ride report from a MK3 service has been prepared to evaluate ride comfort. The MK3 BT10/22 is the accepted benchmark for ride quality Seat and table spacing on the MK3 fleet has been recorded for comparision As soon as we get word a team will deploy quietly in mystery shopper mode. And in best tradition the measuring tape is coming

17-02-2006, 16:43	#19
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	Are they running now? Has anyone here (Mark ) been on one yet?

17-02-2006, 16:51	#20
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	there were two of them loitering around inchicore wednesday