Decrease in journey time - Connolly /Rosslare

[eain]

I'm on a roll with getting questions answered so i may as well make the most of it.

I have been reading around many of the threads in the various forums over the last few few weeks. I am a novice when it comes to rail but have an interest, especially given that i am spending about 20 hours a week stuck on them.

My question - Is it possible that any further reductions in travel time will/can be made on the Connolly/Rosslare route in the next 12/18 months? How often is a review of the timetable undertake?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by eain

Is it possible that any further reductions in travel time will/can be made on the Connolly/Rosslare route in the next 12/18 months?

Radical changes, I doubt. Tweaks are possible.

How often is a review of the timetable undertake?

Typically annually, but that can vary, depending on developments in the meantime or are expected in the next while. So while normally timetables are changed in December, In 2010 they were held over until May 2011, but there were lots of interim changes done in the meantime. Given the delay in the previous changes, there were no major changes in December 2011.

The recent/current deliveries of 2200 class trains may see some changes as the come on-stream. This will however depend on everything going to plan and any deep maintenance plans for the rest of the fleet.

If you have any suggestions, let us know, but realise that radical changes are unlikely and that any changes implemented will likely have to be cost neutral or better. Therefore, the most likely changes will be altered stopping patterns or services moved a few minutes earlier or later.

[Inniskeen]

Irish Rail have choosen to prioritise a half hourly DART service between Bray and Greystones over services to and from Wexford and Rosslare. This has resulted in extraordinarily slow journey times between Connolly and Greystones with Wexford/Rosslare passengers having their journey time extended by about 20 minutes as a consequence.

Incidentally off-peak DART sevices between Bray and Greystones typically carry about 15 to 20 passengers.

There is some scope also for tightening schedules south of Greystones and given the significant amount of money spent on track, signalling and rolling stock, it should be possible to raise speed limits at varios locations, particularly Wicklow/Rathdrum and Arklow/Enniscorthy.

Don't hold your breadth though as Irish Rail have almost zero interest in the route.

[James Howard]

Don't know much about specifics on the Rosslare line but I can't imagine much prospect of dramatic improvements. I've been commuting from Longford for 8 years and over that period there has been new rolling stock, new signalling and most of the level crossings have been automated.

Despite all of that most journeys are three or four minutes longer than when I started. The only improvement is that the 7 o'clock ish morning train now gets into Connolly about 10 minutes earlier than it used to as they made it express between Maynooth and Drumcondra.

[KSW]

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

If you have any suggestions, let us know.

This has been talked to death before on other threads but I'm glad someone yet again is noticing the slow speeds and bringing the topic back up.

I have a few you may or may not like.
From Gorey you have three morning trains 05.55 / 06.45 & 08.24, Then a massive 5 and half hour gap for the next 14.01 Then another Five hour gap for the 19.01 to Dublin. Why on earth would I travel on the 06.45 and arrives into Dublin 08.45 Two hours,When the bus takes 1hr15mins(Wexford Bus). Times to the City from Gorey take 1hr41mins to 2hrs

Trains from Dublin 09.40 / 13.36 / 16.37 / 17.36 & 18.38 They do suit alot of people bar the last service. Times from the City to Gorey at best range from 1hr40 to 1hr53.

Anyway getting way of point, I would really like to see speed increases and more services to Wexford and vice-a-versa and all trains are InterCity operated 22k. 06.00 / 07.00 / 09.00 / 11.30 / 13.30 / 16.00 / 19.00 would do fine Gorey to Dublin. Really need a late morning service in and around 11am ish to get into Dublin by Lunch.
09.00 / 11.00 / 13.00 / 15.30 / 17.00 / 18.00 / 19.30 would be great Dublin to Wexford/Rosslare.

Rosslare Hbr to Gorey will take 1hr.
Gorey to Bray should take 1hr serving the main stations ex Kilcoole.
Bray to Connolly really should take at best 30mins. Bray to Dun Laoghaire 13-16mins and Dun Laoghaire to Pearse 10mins,Extra 5+ mins to reach Connolly. 1hr+1hr+30=2hr30. Rosslare from Bray should be 2hrs.
The section between Bray and Connolly because of the DART frequency's is the main time set back. Have the Rosslare trains kriss-cross tracks and kriss-cross back onto the northbound right direction track passing out the DART train, vice-a-versa Connolly to Bray...

[dowlingm]

KSW

why don't you write to Wexford Town Council and ask them to erect fixed barriers along the Quay such that it is no longer a tramway and the 5mph limit is removed? That should save a minute or two on every service in each direction to Rosslare Harbour. It might cost them a few bob in car park revenue though!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t0Q1PkVbI8

[Mark Gleeson]

Lets stop living in fantasy land

1) There is no money for improvements
2) The studies done rate the return on any investment to be very very low
3) The train is faster by a good margin than the bus between Rosslare and Dublin, normal bus schedule is 3:40.
4) Best time today is 30 minutes faster than the 1973 reference year

Any improvements are likely to come from the continued elimination of level crossings

As the DART carries 40% of all Irish Rail passengers the 15 minute interval service will remain unchanged

[Thomas Ralph]

Can we put the Crayolas away please lads.

[comcor]

The train is only faster to Rosslare because Wexford Bus don't operate a through service from Rosslare. The bus time from Wexford and the train time from Wexford are comparable.

And realistically, a town of over 20,000 people is going to generate a lot more traffic than a ferryport in these days of few foot passengers. That's where the real comparison should lie.

If Rosslare is to be served at all, the last service to Dublin needs to be later, because as things stand, it departs just before two ferries are come in.

[James Howard]

So, the general consensus is that it is acceptable for the fastest journey time by rail for a journey of 162km by road is 2 hours 43 minutes and for the early train to take 3:05. How on earth does it take 3:40 on a bus?

These speeds are are 59kph, 52kph and 44kph. The latter is in the same ballpark as a professional cyclist would maanage.

I am going to stop complaining about my morning service from Edgeworthstown which achieves a staggering 64kph over 106km. My fastest service hits a whopping 75kph.

All distances are by road and the equivalent rail journey is probably a little longer in distance, but that is the distance between the places.

I am not living in "fantasy land" but I don't find these speeds acceptable considering how much of my money (both as a taxpayer and as a fare payer) has been spent on the railways over the last 10 years. One can understand why Irish Rail think differently but I would hope that a rail lobby group might have the same opinion.

Now what have I done with my Crayons?

[Traincustomer]

Given the absence of any morning train that allows local commuting into Co. Wicklow (Wicklow southwards) or Co. Wexford stations for anything resembling a normal working day in a manner of speaking it matters little what time the last train departs Rosslare and Wexford. In fact the arrival of the Fishguard ferry at 1800hrs is the only point of reference in many respects.

No disrespect to Irish Ferries but there is little need to wait for the sailing from Pembroke Dock which arrives at 1845 as it has no rail connections the far side and the station is a good walk from the ferry terminal. Fishguard has the connections and integrated terminal.

[comcor]

The Fishguard ferry arrives at 18:00 (or as often as not just after that). The last train is at 17:55. That's exactly why it needs to be later. I found myself on the bus to Dublin precisely because of this last month.

Of course, the problem is that it has to be significantly later. At the moment, it passes the 16:37 from Dublin in Enniscorthy. I don't think there's anywhere between Enniscorthy and Rosslare Strand that allows it, so the departure would have to move to around 7pm.

[ACustomer]

There is a loop at the Dublin end of the platform in Wexford which allows crossings. Installed as part of the CTC project a few years ago.

[Mark Gleeson]

History will show Rosslare was never the port used to reach Dublin, the vast bulk of the traffic was destined for Waterford, Limerick and Cork

Anyone in the UK is likely to use Holyhead to reach Dublin and indeed the afternoon arrivals connect with the last departures to all regional centers

[comcor]

There will be a certain number. It will be the port of choice for people living in South Wales and the are around Bristol, Bath, Swindon.

So, you're looking at about 10% of the UK population. Although it's 10% where the train journey to Dublin might be relatively attractive compared to flying (especially from Swansea westward, although that's only a 10th of the regional population).

Still, it seems pointless to miss them.

In fact, without the ferry passengers, I'd wonder whether it's worth the train going south of Rosslare Strand, possibly south of Wexford.

[Traincustomer]

Another plus for Rosslare is that its the only route offering a continuous overnight journey possibility in the Ireland-Britain direction. The overnight option can be handy if one is occupied during the day and can't leave until afternoon/evening (though is more tiring and a few hours rest the following day can often be needed).

Leave Dublin on either of the ferries around 9pm and one faces a wait in Holyhead from half past midnight till the first train at 04.25.

[DangerM]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Lets stop living in fantasy land

3) The train is faster by a good margin than the bus between Rosslare and Dublin, normal bus schedule is 3:40.

Selective comparison there, compare times from Gorey or Arklow where most commuters travel from!

[KSW]

Originally Posted by DangerM

compare times from Gorey or Arklow where most commuters travel from!

Interesting you said that. I just found the timetable booklet from 2006. Times back then were much better. Early service till existed 07.26 from Dublin. The 11.35 to Gorey. The 13.35 Did not serve Tara Street or Pearse Station or DunLaoghaire and took 30mins to Bray. The 17.25 to Gorey & the 18.35 to Rosslare. On Sundays all Rosslare services in both directions only served Bray and Connolly not Tara St or Pearse and took 1hr35mins. Notice nowadays the timetable times are 09.40 13.36 16.37 17.29 & 18.38 either 1-4 minutes past the 2006 time. Takes longer to reach Bray. Just the upgraded new 22k trains but thats really it in a 6 year period not very impressive is it!!!!.

[DangerM]

It's just an absolute joke, like to see the justification for that!