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Unread 06-12-2006, 08:49   #1
Colm Donoghue
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Angry dwell times

What's worse than freezing standing on the platform waiting for the train to arrive?
standing on the train waiting for the platform to depart.

This morning (and most mornings) the dwell times at Malahide and Portmarnock were 3-4 minutes. The dwell time at Donabate could have been the of the same order.
We arrived at Malahide at 7:29
Departed Malahide at 7:33
Arrived Portmarnock at 7:37
Departed Portmarnock at 7:41

The train is timetabled to depart Malahide at 7:29 and depart Port at 7:37. Not arrive at those times, fart around, let the cold wind howl through the carriage, let the passengers ingest some aromatic Diesel fuel smoke and fumes, eventually close the doors and mosey on.

IE want more money for the extra fuel costs they have. How about shutting the godam doors and keeping the heat in and saving fuel?

8 minutes to travel 3.8 km is a joke anyway. I could cycle that fast nearly.

This happens everyday. I just don't get annoyed enough to actually time it every day.
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Unread 07-12-2006, 11:02   #2
colmoc
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This dwell time drives me crazy too. I used to get the 8:16 coolmine to pearse and the 5:45 pearse to coolmine.
These dwell times are caused by
  • Driver unable to close the doors on the crush loaded train
  • Waiting that extra minute or two to get even more people on at castleknock
  • Stopping near croke park to keep the timetable padding
  • The slow pace
And to add insult to injury this train is always a few minutes late but considered "ontime" by IE and their lovely lie of a charter and stats

So a few months back I started cycling to and from work through the park. To my surprise the train leaves ten minutes before me which saves me the 5 min walk to the station and I make it to town before the train!!!
I'm no lance armstrong but its a joke that I can cycle faster than a train to work

I still get this train the odd day but it just encourages me to go back to my bike.

Last edited by colmoc : 07-12-2006 at 11:04. Reason: spelling error
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Unread 08-12-2006, 12:08   #3
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This morning I timed the dwell times on my commute to work (A'dam Metro).

From the moment the metro came to a complete stop, to the moment it started moving again ranged from 14-16 seconds. Even at busy stops in the city centre, the MAX was 16. This time includes door opening, passengers/bikes getting off, passengers/bikes getting on, door closing warning sound, doors closing, and then moving....

I really don't understand why the DART and Commuter trains dwell for so long. Is it simply the padding in the IE timetable? I know at crush load it can take a bit longer, but they still seem to stand at the platform too long. Even after the doors close it usually takes a few moments before the train actully pulls away.

Maybe this is very simplistic, but surley the less dwell time you have, the quicker the journey will be and thus the more capacity you have?
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Unread 08-12-2006, 12:14   #4
Thomas J Stamp
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Default X-factor Dwell times

Kate Thornton always waits 13 seconds from "the next person through to the next round is" to naming the person.

We timed it one night.
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Unread 08-12-2006, 12:17   #5
Mark Gleeson
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Well I've timed Pearse

To fill a 8 coach 29000 set, and the passengers know to spread out takes 45-50 seconds but thats with no one getting off. So from the train stopping to the train moving is 60 seconds

I've seen sub 20 seconds done its possible but in many cases no point since it would put you ahead of time

It needs things tightened up
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Unread 08-12-2006, 12:25   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp View Post
Kate Thornton always waits 13 seconds from "the next person through to the next round is" to naming the person.

We timed it one night.
I will time Tyra on the next ANTM - "The person still in the running to become America's next top model is...."

On topic - I suppose you have to make allowances for people that are slow getting on the trains and general lack of commuter etiquette (all piling in, not moving out of the way etc). This is very noticable on the Luas which is regularly delayed at stops because of people's bad manners.
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Unread 08-12-2006, 12:26   #7
Mark Gleeson
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Not forgetting trying to crawl through the coach to find the platform in Portarlington
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Unread 08-12-2006, 12:28   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Not forgetting trying to crawl through the coach to find the platform in Portarlington
And getting stuck behind dining carts, and having doors out of order and buggys and suitcases and bodies in the way.

PS that is getting fixed, we'll have big long fabulous platforms next year.
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Last edited by 2Funki4Wheelz : 08-12-2006 at 12:30. Reason: had to stick up for Port
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Unread 08-12-2006, 13:56   #9
al2637
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It's not such a big issue on InterCity trains, but on DART/Commuter with many stops, it's a nightmare! From Coolmine to Town there's 6 stops. Save 60secs per stop and you knock 6 mins from the journey time!
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Unread 08-12-2006, 14:20   #10
colmoc
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I would love to know how long a train would take from coolmine to pearse without padding, where each stop takes max 60 sec, where the train travels at or near the limit for the track and finally where there is no wait while other trains clear platforms
Or in other words if it was a properly run railway how long should Pearse to Coolmine take using 29000's
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Unread 08-12-2006, 16:48   #11
Mark Gleeson
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One thing to note

DART can be moving within 2 seconds of the doors closing
Railcar takes easily 10 seconds to get moving, clutch, brake, gear etc

Bray Howth (without GCD and Clontraf Rd) the maths said 56 minutes, they did it in 57 on the road and gave it a 60 minute time, fair

If you look at the Maynooth times they vary dramatically off peak-peak down to the extra weight of passengers and the longer dwell times to load/unload

There is certainly scope to tighten it up but the Irish commuting public are not anyway as ordered as in London or Paris
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Unread 08-12-2006, 17:02   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
There is certainly scope to tighten it up but the Irish commuting public are not anyway as ordered as in London or Paris
I always got the impression that even if people boarded or exited as fast as possible the train would always sit there for a while anyway. They're certainly in no rush because any time I get the train they drift into the stations, glide the last 50m, sit for while after the doors close, sit for a bit at the signals just after the stations and sit for a bit at the signals just before the station you want to exit at.

I might be cynical because I typically only travel Kilbarrack to Connolly or, worst again, Clontarf Road to Connolly where most my time is spent waiting on the train
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Unread 08-12-2006, 23:09   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
There is certainly scope to tighten it up but the Irish commuting public are not anyway as ordered as in London or Paris
I think there is another side to that coin. If dwell times were massively reduced and the Dart like the Paris metro where you get a loud buzz and the doors close. People's attitudes would change. Sadly I don't think we have the frequency for that kind of standard.
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Unread 12-12-2006, 11:17   #14
Colm Donoghue
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The dewll times are not caused by waiting for people to load.
the train just waits.

The last stop is portmarnock. I ususlla get the last car where people enter Portmarnock and load on.

There's rarely a crush load, no problem people getting on but still an interminable wait.
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Unread 20-12-2006, 15:46   #15
Thomas the Tank
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[quote=al2637;14846]This morning I timed the dwell times on my commute to work (A'dam Metro).

From the moment the metro came to a complete stop, to the moment it started moving again ranged from 14-16 seconds. Even at busy stops in the city centre, the MAX was 16. This time includes door opening, passengers/bikes getting off, passengers/bikes getting on, door closing warning sound, doors closing, and then moving....

I guess the thing with Metros in places like Amsterdam etc is that if you don't jump on within 14-16 seconds you know that there's always going to be another one along in 2 or 3 minutes and so dwell times are reduced accordingly. Compare that to here...
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Unread 20-12-2006, 16:06   #16
Colm Donoghue
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I timed a 29k in Pearse last week in the evening peak.
49 seconds wheel stop to wheel moving again.
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Unread 20-12-2006, 16:43   #17
Mark Gleeson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colmd View Post
I timed a 29k in Pearse last week in the evening peak.
49 seconds wheel stop to wheel moving again.
Which is pretty good given the wall of people who need to get on
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Unread 21-12-2006, 01:49   #18
James Shields
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It's pretty bad on some of the Northern line services. I'm not certain, but I suspect it comes down to timetable padding. Put simply, the train is timetabled to depart an intermediate station at a certain time, so it can't leave before that, no matter how early it arrives.

A lot of Dundalk trains also change driver in Drogheda. I can comfortably read my book until the train stops, finish the paragraph, close the book, get my bag down off the overhead rack, put my book away, get my coat off the rack, put on my coat, get my hat and gloves out of my bag, put on hat and gloves, stroll to the door and step off - and usually I can still make it out of the station building before the train departs.

On the London Underground, if you're not waiting at the doors by the time the train comes to a halt, you've missed your stop.
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Unread 31-12-2006, 03:49   #19
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Agreed about the Northern Line - as elsewhere, you can be left sitting there twiddling your thumbs, even off peak at 10-11am, with the doors wide open.

It's most certainly down to timetabling on early morning services. As you probably know well lostcarpark, the 7.16 service from Dundalk stops for exactly the same length of ridiculous time at Laytown every morning, right beside the sea with freezing winter winds blasting in at you and every ounce of heat built up over the past half hour in the coach lost over the 2-3 minutes it stands there - and all in spite of it being little more than a model railway stop with a handful of commuters who board inside 4 seconds.

By contrast the stop at Gormanston, of similar size, lasts little more than 30 seconds, and usually pulls away exactly 10 seconds after the destination announcement has finished.

Luckily for Drogheda commuters, they don't have to endure the driver changeover and ridiculous dwell time often experienced at Drogheda, often several minutes after the platform has emptied. IE's attitude is nothing more than sure there's only a handful of Dundalk types left on board - they'll be grand for a while longer while we finish our chat. And chat they do...

After five years I gave up on the Northen Line completely during the summer - it's simply not worth the hassle anymore from Dundalk. The dwell times, the infrequency, the ever-expanding farcical journey durations, and above all the hideous 29000s just turned me off the railway compltely (sadly), in favour of a private coach service. It runs every hour, costs 60% less for a return ticket than IE, is immeasurably more comfortable than the DMUs, I'm gauranteed a seat, takes a little less time than rail, and is 100% reliable.
Simply no competition. The company cannot get over the demand for their services - the amount of former rail people I see availing of it is constantly increasing too.
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Unread 02-01-2007, 15:54   #20
Colm Donoghue
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Got the train in last friday. dwell times were very short. Door open times were about 10 seconds.

Then today the usual crap.
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