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Unread 11-02-2016, 11:20   #1
Dublin13
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Default 8100 PIS Changes (and not for the better)

One of the best thing about the 8100 class is that they are the only units in the fleet that have a working and reliable PIS system that rarely fails, unlike the other sets which rarely work.

The last couple of days I'd seen a number of units go around with unusually blank screens having rarely saw, and wondered what was going on, but having been on 85xx's for the last few days never got to see them up close.

I was on a 8100 this morning and last night and first the positives, next station and destination is now fully in Irish, rather than saying next station and destination in English and having the station name in Irish alongside it. However that is where the good news ends

The issues I've seen on BOTH sets:
- The units that have been upgraded seem to always have blank side screens
- They're using an old destination list, since they don't know Clongriffin exists.
- Announcements are not always bilingual, I herd some stations be called in only English.

So instead of fixing the 85xx's that don't work, we now have 8100s that don't work properly as well that worked fine for years.

Great job.
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Unread 11-02-2016, 13:48   #2
Thomas J Stamp
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well, this is what is called providing a standardised service.
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Unread 11-02-2016, 17:02   #3
James Howard
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I believe there is some sort of PIS goblin that infects the systems on trains in Ireland. It seems to take a few years from when a train enters service but eventually, the passenger information system withers away and dies.

This problem does not exist anywhere else on Earth.
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Unread 11-02-2016, 17:19   #4
Dublin13
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The system in the 8500 class trains is just crap though although I believe there is more than one system in those, since it's not unknown for the displays, the outer displays and the announcements to be all at odds with each other and that is before you consider the on-board electronic maps that are dead for years. They reguarly conflict with each other and have no idea where they are going and frequently get stuck. The displays are blank about 50% of the time.

The 8100 system was always reliable and lets face it, the equipment looks far less cheap and nasty than on the other trains in pretty much the whole fleet and only tends to fail if some driver programs it incorrectly, or doesn't reprogram it when changing direction, which is rare but occasionally does happen. But you never hear the wrong stations being called out or the system being behind and I've never seen the displays turned completely off inside.

Personally since Siemens could clearly install a system that is reliable and works they should have fitted the entire fleet with the same equipment, but then again even with good and reliable systems, as has now been shown, Irish rail can still mess that up.

Last edited by Dublin13 : 11-02-2016 at 17:21.
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Unread 12-02-2016, 07:58   #5
James Howard
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Given that they do seem to deteriorate over time I wouldn't be surprised if the underlying issue was something like moisture in the electrical connections between cars.
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Unread 12-02-2016, 09:23   #6
Thomas J Stamp
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i think its just the fact that they are operating in ireland. i fondly remember the days of the route and destination scrolls on the busses, which would never be correct all the way round.

"is this bus going to Finglas?" you'd ask the driver/conductor
"no"
"it says Finglas on the front"
"it says India on the tyres but its not going there either"
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Unread 12-02-2016, 10:22   #7
James Howard
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The last time I was in London, I noticed that even the Boris buses still had scrolls on them and from what I could tell every one of them was going to where it said it was going. They were a lot clearer than the electronic signs on our buses.

In fairness, Dublin Bus are fairly good about having the correct destination on their buses.
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Unread 12-02-2016, 22:43   #8
Eddie
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Getting a bit of track now, but there's nowhere else to air it...

As a former resident and now semi regular visitor to London, yes, you're right, I'm pretty sure buses there still have the destination scrolls. One thing it does seem to provide though is flexibility - they can terminate early by changing destination if they are behind schedule. The electronic boards on Dublin Bus only have the end destinations, and that's it, so the only option seems to be to pull them out of service if they are behind schedule. The one exception I know about is the number 7 route, which does seem to have the ability to "RDS", but the only thing is, it removes the route number, so unless you're in the know, you'd have no idea it was going to follow the 7 route to the RDS.

The other thing I don't understand about Dublin Bus is why about 50-75% of drivers will not use the middle doors on the new 2 door buses, which must be costing the taxpayer in the region of about 300k a pop. Utterly unbelievable. It used to really annoy me, but now I just make a point when using a 2 door bus of only thanking a driver when he uses the middle doors - if he forces me to use the front door, then I won't. If a driver has middle door aversion syndrome, then just allocate them an older single door bus and be done with it.

And then of course there's the night buses which only stop at a handful of stops. I haven't bothered with them since one zipped straight past me at a non-conforming stop 3 years ago.

Shame there isn't a bususers.ie website where all this can be championed. Occasionally in the past, I have written suggestions by email, but have only gotten responses about half the time.

Last edited by Eddie : 13-02-2016 at 05:42.
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Unread 13-02-2016, 08:26   #9
Dublin13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Howard View Post
Given that they do seem to deteriorate over time I wouldn't be surprised if the underlying issue was something like moisture in the electrical connections between cars.
Whilst that may be the case with the 8500 class units, which have had problems for years and almost since introduction, their issues have been ongoing and have never been fixed, about 50% of the 8500 I am on have dead internal displays and it's very rare I find a unit with external, internal and announcements all working.

The 8100 systems have been very reliable and the only time they are incorrect is when the driver doesn't program the return journey when changing ends at a terminus. The problems with them appears to simply be caused by the software upgrade, the fact that units don't know Clongriffin exists is totally down to Irish Rail using an old station list or worse still, using an old software version to update with the Irish rather than the latest one.

It's no surprise that Siemens managed to fit a better system than Tokyu Car though, they used a very highly regarded company for all of the PIS systems.

Last edited by Dublin13 : 13-02-2016 at 08:41.
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Unread 14-02-2016, 14:01   #10
Mark Gleeson
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For a start Siemens are highly unlikely to get any further business from Irish Rail after messing up the last contract.

The 8500 issue is mainly as a result of slightly different hardware on the three different 8500 type units, so it can be fun in a mixed 8 car formation.
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Unread 14-02-2016, 16:56   #11
Dublin13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
For a start Siemens are highly unlikely to get any further business from Irish Rail after messing up the last contract.

The 8500 issue is mainly as a result of slightly different hardware on the three different 8500 type units, so it can be fun in a mixed 8 car formation.
Granted there was a mess up with the refurbishment order and the delays that resulted for it was certainly bad news, but they did an excellent job with the actual refurbishment and the PIS systems are streets ahead of the 8500 even if Irish Rail have messed them up. From a passenger point of view the 8100 class are excellent units and seem ideally suited for the work they do and built with good quality materials,

Rather than the 8500 range which are effectively a converted commuter work unit with very cheap looking PIS screens and awful seats that clearly were not designed with European people in mind.

That doesn't explain why the 8500 units still have severe problems even when running solo as well. Even when units from the same generation are running together there is still problems as well. Only last week I was on a four car where one end was going to Bray, the other Howth. No Announcements, external side displays showing it was going to Greystones when in-fact it was going to Malahide.

Last edited by Dublin13 : 14-02-2016 at 16:59.
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Unread 16-02-2016, 10:22   #12
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They appear to have got the side displays working now on the trains with the upgrades, however they appear to blank out for the rest of the journey heading Northbound after Howth Junction and Southbound after Portmarnock, must be related to the trains still not knowing Clongriffin exists.

Some of the trains still have the old software and work correctly.
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