Loads on Limerick Junction - Waterford Line

2200DMU · 03-12-2011, 21:51

Just wondered does anyone know what the loads tend to be like on the route. Today I was on the 08.55 from Limerick Junction on arrival into Waterford there was between 60-70 passengers on it. About 40 got on in Carric on Suir. Is this normal?

Never thaught I would see the day there would be standing room only on the service.

Colm Moore · 04-12-2011, 12:44

I get the impression that loads are about 150 per day. Yesterday would have marked the start of the Christmas shopping, certainly Dublin seemed busy.

dowlingm · 04-12-2011, 15:12

I seem to remember some chat that Clonmel-Limerick Junction was going to be upgraded to auto level crossings so that routine Sunday operation without crossing staff would be possible. Is that still the plan?

Jamie2k9 · 04-12-2011, 15:18

Can't see them having the money to do it now and if they did they would not spend it on that line, Waterford line was due to have all auto level crossings but that has not happoned yet..

Was told that every auto crossing costs in the region of 1 million euro is this true, find it hard to beleave its that much.

James Howard · 04-12-2011, 19:18

Even if is a million to do a crossing, there is still a relatively short payback time. To operate a manual level-crossing on a 24/7 basis would probably cost a couple of hundred grand a year.

dowlingm · 04-12-2011, 20:01

250K was the number a few years back, but crossing operators don't get paid much from what I recall, payback nearer to 8-10 years or more excluding any extra operating costs of a CCTV LC over a manual.

Colm Moore · 04-12-2011, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm

I seem to remember some chat that Clonmel-Limerick Junction was going to be upgraded to auto level crossings so that routine Sunday operation without crossing staff would be possible. Is that still the plan?

7 day operation is perfectly possibly by employing an extra person for each 6 level crossings. That person then provides relief operation to each of the gate keepers on specific days.

Level crossing 1 - Monday
Level crossing 2 - Tueday
Level crossing 3 - Wednesday
Level crossing 4 - Thursday
Level crossing 5 - Friday
Level crossing 6 - Saturday

3-4 additional staff would be required.

finnyus · 05-12-2011, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2200DMU

Just wondered does anyone know what the loads tend to be like on the route. Today I was on the 08.55 from Limerick Junction on arrival into Waterford there was between 60-70 passengers on it. About 40 got on in Carric on Suir. Is this normal?

Never thaught I would see the day there would be standing room only on the service.

I was one of the 40+ who boarded the 0855 at Carrick-on-Suir. I was shocked to see the amount of ppl on it, but the week before was the same. I came back on the 1140 Waterford - Limerick Junction. There were 5 ppl on board, my brother and I, another passenger, the driver and the ticket seller. There was no scheduled connection from the 09.10(?) Heuston - Waterford, as there were delays due to the engineering works between Kilkenny and Muine Bheag. 2 got out at Carrick and 2 got on.

There is currently one automatic half-barrier level crossing on the line, at Ballydine, between Clonmel and Carrick. This is currently being converted into a 4-barrier level crossing, more than likely controlled from either Carrick or Clonmel. There is also works happening at Fiddown level crossing, the nature of, I am not sure.

F.

Destructix · 06-12-2011, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnyus

I came back on the 1140 Waterford - Limerick Junction. There were 5 ppl on board

That is still alot more than the Nenagh line gets. I only see 2 people getting on in Colbert most days.

I must take a journey to Clonmel by train one day. It's €33 a ticket though from the machine :/ €29 at the booking office. I might just buy a single and get the bus home to Thurles.

With a regular dmu commuter service lets say from Templemore-Thurles-Limerick Junction-Tipperary-Cahir-Clonmel-Carrick on Suir, passenger numbers would increase. Even a link with Waterford would be possible.

sublimity · 06-12-2011, 15:54

I don't see the point in upgrading the level crossings on a lightly used line. It would be a waste of money. These are not the Celtic Tiger years. Some lines will remain with manual level crossings and semaphore signalling which is perfectly adequate for lightly used lines. FACT. Rant over.

Inniskeen · 06-12-2011, 18:23

One can only imagine what would happen if this line had a decent service and was actively marketed ?

finnyus · 06-12-2011, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

One can only imagine what would happen if this line had a decent service and was actively marketed ?

And includes Limerick as a destination, as well as offering connections at Limerick Junction and Waterford.

James Howard · 06-12-2011, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublimity

I don't see the point in upgrading the level crossings on a lightly used line. It would be a waste of money. These are not the Celtic Tiger years. Some lines will remain with manual level crossings and semaphore signalling which is perfectly adequate for lightly used lines. FACT. Rant over.

I would think that automating crossings and signalling is the best way that Irish Rail can spend money right now given that it takes so much cost out of operating the line.

Mark Gleeson · 06-12-2011, 20:33

Signaling upgrades can be done relatively easily. Looks like Waterford West is for the chop which helps on the costs. The automation of Limerick Junction last year again saves more. There is still a budget for more level crossing automation and Limerick - Waterford is on the list

Numbers will never be amazing on the route but there is scope relatively easily to improve matters, direct services to Limerick clearly ranks as the simplest and cheapest alternative.

The tall ships visit has done wonders for local perceptions of the service.

Jamie2k9 · 06-12-2011, 21:04

If all crossing to Clomel were automatic then a increased schedule between the two towns would work as Mark said the Tall Ships helped.

If there were drivers based at Limerick J it would be way better for the 6.40 Waterford - Limerick was swapped around and it may see increased numbers as it would be in Waterford at 08.15 which would be ideal for people working in Waterford. Hav never seen a passenger on the 06.40 from Waterford.

dowlingm · 07-12-2011, 03:44

A Clonmel base would be a good thing if it could be done I'd say. A 2100 Waterford departure to Clonmel as the last service of the day (currently 2028 inbound from LJ) would not only facilitate connection to the 2055 ex Heuston arrival but form the 0728 the following morning. Obviously those timings wouldn't be exact because even if the suggested through service to Limerick didn't force a recast of the timetable, train paths might need to be reworked if all service to/from Waterford and Belview is going to be shoved down 1.5 miles of single track.

Destructix · 07-12-2011, 07:00

I was heading to Waterford yesterday getting the bus in Clonmel. I see they removed the boards off the train station windows but the gates to the station where locked and a 2700 was at the platform im guessing it was bus transfers again?

ccos · 02-01-2012, 20:39

Traveled on the 11.40 from Waterford, not a lot of passengers, about 20, (a few of whom were going through to Galway), quite a high number I thought,given there was going to be no trains back for the next 2 days.
The line speeds seem to be quiet good, I think the addition of second train-set, which would double the number of services and the introduction of sunday services would do wonders for the prospect of this line.

2200DMU · 17-01-2012, 20:21

Reported that Clomenl-Waterford services could be increased. Reports than a extra 2900 will be used. Clonmel Chamber of Commerce have said that they will start a publicity drive if services are increased. Will it happon...there would be demand for it.

Destructix · 17-01-2012, 20:48

I don't know much if there is a demand or not for Limerick-Waterford as i don't live near that line but i imagine there probably is. Funnily enough the train is much faster than Bus Éireann route 55 but you have to wait at Limerick Junction for 30 minutes to meet the trains on the mainline. I know there is a big demand here in North Tipperary for a commuter service connecting Tipperary town/Cahir/Clonmel etc to Thurles/Templemore. Though with the number of trains passing between Thurles and Limerick Junction i don't know if there would be enough time to pencil in a few services.

03-12-2011, 21:51	#1
2200DMU Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 66	Loads on Limerick Junction - Waterford Line Just wondered does anyone know what the loads tend to be like on the route. Today I was on the 08.55 from Limerick Junction on arrival into Waterford there was between 60-70 passengers on it. About 40 got on in Carric on Suir. Is this normal? Never thaught I would see the day there would be standing room only on the service. Last edited by 2200DMU : 03-12-2011 at 21:56.

04-12-2011, 12:44	#2
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	I get the impression that loads are about 150 per day. Yesterday would have marked the start of the Christmas shopping, certainly Dublin seemed busy. __________________

04-12-2011, 15:18	#4
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	Can't see them having the money to do it now and if they did they would not spend it on that line, Waterford line was due to have all auto level crossings but that has not happoned yet.. Was told that every auto crossing costs in the region of 1 million euro is this true, find it hard to beleave its that much. Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 04-12-2011 at 15:20.

06-12-2011, 20:33	#14
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Signaling upgrades can be done relatively easily. Looks like Waterford West is for the chop which helps on the costs. The automation of Limerick Junction last year again saves more. There is still a budget for more level crossing automation and Limerick - Waterford is on the list Numbers will never be amazing on the route but there is scope relatively easily to improve matters, direct services to Limerick clearly ranks as the simplest and cheapest alternative. The tall ships visit has done wonders for local perceptions of the service. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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04-12-2011, 15:12	#3
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	I seem to remember some chat that Clonmel-Limerick Junction was going to be upgraded to auto level crossings so that routine Sunday operation without crossing staff would be possible. Is that still the plan?

04-12-2011, 19:18	#5
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	Even if is a million to do a crossing, there is still a relatively short payback time. To operate a manual level-crossing on a 24/7 basis would probably cost a couple of hundred grand a year.

04-12-2011, 20:01	#6
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	250K was the number a few years back, but crossing operators don't get paid much from what I recall, payback nearer to 8-10 years or more excluding any extra operating costs of a CCTV LC over a manual.

06-12-2011, 15:54	#10
sublimity Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 309	I don't see the point in upgrading the level crossings on a lightly used line. It would be a waste of money. These are not the Celtic Tiger years. Some lines will remain with manual level crossings and semaphore signalling which is perfectly adequate for lightly used lines. FACT. Rant over.

06-12-2011, 18:23	#11
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	One can only imagine what would happen if this line had a decent service and was actively marketed ?

06-12-2011, 21:04	#15
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	If all crossing to Clomel were automatic then a increased schedule between the two towns would work as Mark said the Tall Ships helped. If there were drivers based at Limerick J it would be way better for the 6.40 Waterford - Limerick was swapped around and it may see increased numbers as it would be in Waterford at 08.15 which would be ideal for people working in Waterford. Hav never seen a passenger on the 06.40 from Waterford.

07-12-2011, 03:44	#16
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	A Clonmel base would be a good thing if it could be done I'd say. A 2100 Waterford departure to Clonmel as the last service of the day (currently 2028 inbound from LJ) would not only facilitate connection to the 2055 ex Heuston arrival but form the 0728 the following morning. Obviously those timings wouldn't be exact because even if the suggested through service to Limerick didn't force a recast of the timetable, train paths might need to be reworked if all service to/from Waterford and Belview is going to be shoved down 1.5 miles of single track.

07-12-2011, 07:00	#17
Destructix Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Tipperary Posts: 258	I was heading to Waterford yesterday getting the bus in Clonmel. I see they removed the boards off the train station windows but the gates to the station where locked and a 2700 was at the platform im guessing it was bus transfers again?

02-01-2012, 20:39	#18
ccos Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kazbegi Posts: 281	Traveled on the 11.40 from Waterford, not a lot of passengers, about 20, (a few of whom were going through to Galway), quite a high number I thought,given there was going to be no trains back for the next 2 days. The line speeds seem to be quiet good, I think the addition of second train-set, which would double the number of services and the introduction of sunday services would do wonders for the prospect of this line.

17-01-2012, 20:21	#19
2200DMU Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 66	Reported that Clomenl-Waterford services could be increased. Reports than a extra 2900 will be used. Clonmel Chamber of Commerce have said that they will start a publicity drive if services are increased. Will it happon...there would be demand for it.

17-01-2012, 20:48	#20
Destructix Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Tipperary Posts: 258	I don't know much if there is a demand or not for Limerick-Waterford as i don't live near that line but i imagine there probably is. Funnily enough the train is much faster than Bus Éireann route 55 but you have to wait at Limerick Junction for 30 minutes to meet the trains on the mainline. I know there is a big demand here in North Tipperary for a commuter service connecting Tipperary town/Cahir/Clonmel etc to Thurles/Templemore. Though with the number of trains passing between Thurles and Limerick Junction i don't know if there would be enough time to pencil in a few services.