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Unread 19-03-2007, 15:07   #1
paddyb180285
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Default Draft Map?



I notice that this map is mentioned on the 11th of March 2007 in the news section on the platform 11 web site.Dalkey, Killiney and Sydney Parade seem to be linked to the blue line for Gorey as well as Raheny and Clontarf Road. However, the maps I have seen on the DART don't include these links.I know it is a draft map like the name says or is it going to replace the ones which are currently on the DART? I'm a bit confused!!!
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Unread 19-03-2007, 15:18   #2
Aphfaneire
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Well for one thing, im not an expert but i asked months ago about the new maps that apeared on the dart, very similar to these. And now they're appearing on the commuters. That map does seem different though, as im not sure the commuter services are only layed out as a blue line without a further key instruction about the different routes.


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Unread 19-03-2007, 15:30   #3
Mark Gleeson
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The draft map found its way to us in early July 2006, it did not come from a source within the CIE group, it is different from the on train one which was signed of in September

At the time IE had promised a new map after several letters we sent in complaining that few if any maps existed and those that did where out of date by a considerable number of months, eg Aerdart had shut down and Luas had started

After about 2 months thinking the map would appear we wrote again to IE stating we had obtained a copy of the map and that since we could prove it existed any delay was inexplicable and surprise surprise two weeks later the maps appeared
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Unread 19-03-2007, 17:28   #4
paddyb180285
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Who designed this map if nobody from CIE did?Whoever did,the map is very misleading for people from Dalkey(me being one of them),Killiney and Raheny.
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Unread 19-03-2007, 19:24   #5
luasifer
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The on train ones do not show the airport connections from Heuston(748), Busaras(747), Tara Street(747). Poor ommission I think. Lets not go near the whole luas green line thing!!
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Unread 20-03-2007, 15:17   #6
shweeney
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its a rubbish map - why do they need to depict dublin bay, it just makes the whole shape of the map awkward. They should do it all with straight, horizontal lines.
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Unread 20-03-2007, 15:27   #7
Mark Gleeson
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On one level the map is fair representation, stick your head over the wall at Seapoint at Howth is directly across, it does allow for a more detailed map since it gives a lot more room to work with

Given a choice between no map and this you have little choice

I have a less than great photo of the 2nd edition of the original map circa 1990 will post later.

Does anyone have the 1984 map??
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Unread 20-03-2007, 15:45   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
On one level the map is fair representation, stick your head over the wall at Seapoint at Howth is directly across, it does allow for a more detailed map since it gives a lot more room to work with
Who cares where places are? We're not walking or driving ourselves there. Irish Rail must be the only operator I know that uses geographically correct maps. There's just no point to them. All they need is one straight line showing all the stops on the route. Text should be sideways (not diagonal) and large enough to read without having to stand directly in front of the map. Why can everyone else do this except IR?

The only reason I can see, apart from someone being needlessly artistic, is because advertising space comes before passenger information.

Also there's a difference between route maps and system maps but IR don't seem to realise that either. Even system maps don't need to be geographically correct either, they just need to show passengers where to make connections.

Edit:
Route map (bottom)
http://www.transitlink.com.sg/images...rain_route.jpg

System map
http://www.trainweb.org/railworld/NDLS/images/Map.jpg

Last edited by markpb : 20-03-2007 at 15:55.
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Unread 20-03-2007, 15:53   #9
Colm Donoghue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpb View Post

The only reason I can see, apart from someone being needlessly artistic, is because advertising space comes before passenger information.
exactly! The maps for passengers have to fit into spare slots for advertisers

Last edited by Colm Donoghue : 20-03-2007 at 15:53. Reason: spelling
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Unread 20-03-2007, 16:04   #10
Mark Gleeson
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Its appallingly inaccurate geographically but make a half effort just like the London map, the map definitely helps you figure out where you are particularly on the southside since you can see where you are

Presumably someone in 1984 had a look at it and figured they couldn't fit in a standard advertising space so they went with 1.5 times width which was a perfect fit, that was before Kildare started

Map would need to go square almost to fit it all in correctly, typically maps in large systems would only cover one line so I think we are lucky
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Unread 21-03-2007, 18:19   #11
Mark Gleeson
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As promised the original



Some further investigation shows that there where actually two different maps back then, the northern line was always at the north end regardless of which side you looked, so the second was a flopped version

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 21-03-2007 at 22:55.
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Unread 29-03-2007, 19:09   #12
MrX
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I suppose the fact that nothing really interconnects and that there's no integration of anything would render a circuit diagram style map, like the london underground, completely useless anyway!
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Unread 30-03-2007, 13:29   #13
shweeney
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my alternative, from a previous thread:

http://forum.platform11.org/attachme...6&d=1162457745

all horizontal lines, similar enough to the original map. Definitely think its a better way of depicting it than trying to crowbar Dublin Bay into the picture...
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Unread 30-03-2007, 13:31   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shweeney View Post
my alternative, from a previous thread:

http://forum.platform11.org/attachme...6&d=1162457745

all horizontal lines, similar enough to the original map. Definitely think its a better way of depicting it than trying to crowbar Dublin Bay into the picture...

It's slightly clearer than the IR one but I still don't know why Darts should show the full suburban map over the door - there just isn't space and most people will never care. Show the current line and where to make connections.
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Unread 31-03-2007, 10:00   #15
MrX
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What you need is :

(a) Map of DART line only in a circuit style diagram.
All connections, to Luas, Commuter Rail and Bus routes (including a notice that there's a short walk to Bus Aras)

(b) Large map (perhaps one per coach) on the wall with a map of the full Dublin network.

In Cork on the commuter service:

They need to ensure that they have maps of Cork and not completely useless maps of Dublin which just gives users the impression that IE doesn't give a damn about Cork. It's one of the worst peices of PR I've seen.

Again in Cork there should be a map of the line in question + a map of the local area.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 07:33   #16
Colm Moore
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What the new map does is allow two rows of stations compared to the normal one row. But it is trying too hard and failing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
As promised the original



Some further investigation shows that there where actually two different maps back then, the northern line was always at the north end regardless of which side you looked, so the second was a flopped version
Thats a 1990 (it includes Broombridge, etc.), not a 1984.

Last edited by Colm Moore : 06-04-2007 at 07:40.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 16:15   #17
Mark Gleeson
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Photo is about 1991, still the best but the problem with Kildare line and Maynooth is clear when you add yet more stations

It is the original design but with the 1990 new Maynooth stations and IR logo

Does anyone have the 1984?? I don't think it has the CIE logo on it
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Unread 07-04-2007, 11:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
As promised the original



Some further investigation shows that there where actually two different maps back then, the northern line was always at the north end regardless of which side you looked, so the second was a flopped version
Crikey that brings me back Mark!
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Unread 10-04-2007, 23:07   #19
Thomas J Stamp
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think i can better that, i have an even older map here somewhere i'll try and find it tomorow
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Unread 15-04-2007, 04:20   #20
Colm Moore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddyb180285 View Post
There is a variation on that map in "Iarnród Éireann - Moving into the future" (page17and18 - I don't think its in the web version - site is down at the moment).

I've changed it around to fit more information. I admit I've broken some rules in the design, but I think it works better.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DART Commuter Rail Network.jpg (99.6 KB, 2157 views)
File Type: jpg DART Commuter Rail Network 2.jpg (109.5 KB, 2105 views)
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