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Unread 11-04-2016, 21:54   #1
Eddie
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Default Dart Length

3 years ago we were told that Darts were to be reduced in size to cut costs, with 2 carriage Darts being quite a frequent occurrence at certain times of day.

3 years on and we're back to 6 and 8 carriage Darts trundling around in the evenings when 2 or 4 would still suffice.

If it made savings then, then it makes savings now. It must have been someone's job before to reduce the train set size, but clearly it is no ones now.

And you also have the situation like I saw at Monkstown station last week where a 4 carriage city bound Dart pulled in around 8.15am, absolutely jammed.

Essentially the same comment, why does it appear that it's now no-ones responsibility to have appropriate size Dart sets?
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Unread 12-04-2016, 00:46   #2
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
3 years ago we were told that Darts were to be reduced in size to cut costs, with 2 carriage Darts being quite a frequent occurrence at certain times of day.

3 years on and we're back to 6 and 8 carriage Darts trundling around in the evenings when 2 or 4 would still suffice.

If it made savings then, then it makes savings now. It must have been someone's job before to reduce the train set size, but clearly it is no ones now.

And you also have the situation like I saw at Monkstown station last week where a 4 carriage city bound Dart pulled in around 8.15am, absolutely jammed.

Essentially the same comment, why does it appear that it's now no-ones responsibility to have appropriate size Dart sets?
Well firstly they have been given 20 million odd to increase trains, not spending that means it goes back to the NTA and could possible make future funding requirements for additional capacity more difficult.

To reduce trains now would require a set to/from the depot which is out of service and another set to/from depot in service to make up for the set leaving service etc and it creates lots of complications and costs some money and not really worth the hassle. Before yesterday all sets would of just been in continue service at a mix of 4/6/8 at peak and off peak.

It will hopefully highlight that off peak 10 minute service is not needed however I don't think we will ever get that across.
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Unread 12-04-2016, 07:11   #3
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
3 years ago we were told that Darts were to be reduced in size to cut costs, with 2 carriage Darts being quite a frequent occurrence at certain times of day.

3 years on and we're back to 6 and 8 carriage Darts trundling around in the evenings when 2 or 4 would still suffice.

If it made savings then, then it makes savings now. It must have been someone's job before to reduce the train set size, but clearly it is no ones now.

And you also have the situation like I saw at Monkstown station last week where a 4 carriage city bound Dart pulled in around 8.15am, absolutely jammed.

Essentially the same comment, why does it appear that it's now no-ones responsibility to have appropriate size Dart sets?
Jeez they can't win can they?

For the past 2-3 years we've had people complaining non-stop about trains being too short. Starting yesterday they strengthen them once again and people still complain!!

The logistics of swapping sets is complicated - you need to split at both Connolly and Bray which means sets shuttling back and forward between Fairview and Connolly and between Bray Station and Bray Shed.

Last edited by berneyarms : 12-04-2016 at 09:42.
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Unread 12-04-2016, 09:08   #4
Dublin13
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Have they lengthened the 17:54 from Connolly to Malahide?
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Unread 12-04-2016, 11:16   #5
James Shields
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It's utterly ridiculous to be running 4-car sets in the morning and evening peak periods.

While in theory, reducing train lengths at off peak times makes sense, I think in practice that means running a set empty to Fairview to split it (presumably there's room to leave a few coaches at Howth and Brey, but not half the fleet). The savings from running short trains off peak would probably get eaten up in costs of driver pay and running empty sets.

In the UK they seem to be able split and join sets in service. Is there a reason an announcement on trains after 10:00 telling passengers going beyond Clontarf Road to use the front two or four coaches? A driver could be waiting on the platform to split the set and take the rear coaches to the yard. Similarly, could there be extra coaches waiting for trains after 16:00 to join up to?

If other countries can do this, why can't we?

James
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Unread 12-04-2016, 11:41   #6
berneyarms
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Originally Posted by James Shields View Post
It's utterly ridiculous to be running 4-car sets in the morning and evening peak periods.

While in theory, reducing train lengths at off peak times makes sense, I think in practice that means running a set empty to Fairview to split it (presumably there's room to leave a few coaches at Howth and Brey, but not half the fleet). The savings from running short trains off peak would probably get eaten up in costs of driver pay and running empty sets.

In the UK they seem to be able split and join sets in service. Is there a reason an announcement on trains after 10:00 telling passengers going beyond Clontarf Road to use the front two or four coaches? A driver could be waiting on the platform to split the set and take the rear coaches to the yard. Similarly, could there be extra coaches waiting for trains after 16:00 to join up to?

If other countries can do this, why can't we?

James
Splitting at Howth would make no sense - there's no storage space and it would having to run back to the depot empty at Fairview.

Splitting can only realistically happen at Connolly and Bray and that's exactly what was happening.

Again, the logistics are far from straightforward - you need to make sure that the requisite number of sets end up at the right depot (Bray or Fairview) to start the morning service.

Thus while it may appear daft to have longer trains running after the peak has completed, it may be the only way to get sets back in place for the next day.

Last edited by berneyarms : 12-04-2016 at 11:43.
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Unread 12-04-2016, 16:24   #7
Inniskeen
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It is very welcome that peak period DART sets have been strengthened although as I tap this I see that there will be at least one peak northbound departure formed by a four car set - the 1637 Dun Laoghaire/Howth.

I appreciate some thought and effort are required to split sets but it was routine when DART was first introduced and once the knack was mastered there was no particular issue.

Whatever about the cost of operating near empty trains, it is bordering on the criminally negligent to have 8 car trains rattling around with 15 or 20 passengers. There is a real risk of vandalism, intimidation of passengers and a Health and Safety risk for both passengers and staff given the attraction to undesireables of unstaffed stations and virtually empty trains.
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Unread 19-07-2016, 10:00   #8
vegas82
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has anybody noticed that they have cut the dart lengths again for a lot of the peak time trains - I know its summertime but i wish they had some way of communicating that it would be a short train so we didnt have to pelt it along the platform to the last carriage which is inevitably jammed because the same thing has happened in every station!

Was so nice to be back having long trains...
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Unread 19-07-2016, 10:20   #9
James Shields
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Originally Posted by vegas82 View Post
has anybody noticed that they have cut the dart lengths again for a lot of the peak time trains - I know its summertime but i wish they had some way of communicating that it would be a short train so we didnt have to pelt it along the platform to the last carriage which is inevitably jammed because the same thing has happened in every station!
I do like the way in the UK (depending on the company running the station), train announcements generally include "This train is formed of X coaches." Also, they will generally designate which end of the platform to wait at for short trains.

James
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