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Unread 08-10-2015, 09:35   #1
Mark Gleeson
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Exclamation Enforcement of Bikes on Trains Rules

As of Monday Oct 19th there will be a zero tolerance policy to the carriage of bikes on trains at peak hours

No bikes before 09:30 or between 16:00 and 19:00 Mon-Fri

Only bikes which are placed in the bike rack or the luggage van will be carried.

There is no change in policy, these have been the rules for many years. There have been numerous complaints from passengers of bikes blocking doors and thus obstructing access to the train and creating a safety risk.
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Unread 08-10-2015, 11:32   #2
grainne whale
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And about time too, some times you cannot get on/off a train with some bikes blocking the doors during peak times. Actually even with bikes in the racks those bikes with wide handlebars pose a danger - they are at eye level - who is is liable in case of injury - by the way
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Unread 08-10-2015, 13:56   #3
James Howard
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Well in Ireland, the person liable is usually the one with the deepest pockets, so I'd guess Irish Rail. Myself, I have eyes so I'd be able to see the bike as I go past and avoid getting the handlebars in the eye.
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Unread 08-10-2015, 14:32   #4
Mark Gleeson
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Its something we have raised several times, the safety aspect was a source of serious concern and this was delaying trains as people had to climb over abandoned bikes.

The bike rack was designed in response to complaints by RUI and others but we did not have input in the design, we simply were shown the completed item.

To be completely clear all of us here at Rail Users Ireland support carrying bikes on trains but we are realistic as to the rush hour situation. Taking out more seats isn't going to work.
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Unread 08-10-2015, 14:36   #5
grainne whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Howard View Post
Well in Ireland, the person liable is usually the one with the deepest pockets, so I'd guess Irish Rail. Myself, I have eyes so I'd be able to see the bike as I go past and avoid getting the handlebars in the eye.
'eat a lot of carrots - do you
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Unread 14-10-2015, 15:10   #6
Thomas J Stamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Its something we have raised several times, the safety aspect was a source of serious concern and this was delaying trains as people had to climb over abandoned bikes.

The bike rack was designed in response to complaints by RUI and others but we did not have input in the design, we simply were shown the completed item.

To be completely clear all of us here at Rail Users Ireland support carrying bikes on trains but we are realistic as to the rush hour situation. Taking out more seats isn't going to work.

yeah well i'm still waiting for the motorbike rack i suggested at the time to be implemented.
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Unread 19-10-2015, 11:19   #7
James Shields
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I've occasionally carried bikes on the 7:22 from Drogheda, which is operated by a 22K Intercity DMU. I asked staff at the station beforehand, and they said no problem, as it's an Intercity train. The only difficulty is that you never know which end of the train the bike rack will be at (it's normally a pair of 3-car sets, so there could be one at each end, two in the middle, or one at the end and one at the middle), so if I guess wrong I have to run for the correct location.

I tried the same on the 16:44 from Pearse, but staff there told me that although it was an Intercity train, it was a commuter service, so bikes are not allowed.

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Unread 19-10-2015, 12:51   #8
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The Connolly side is an issue alright.

We do need a very clear indication of the bike rack location on the coach side
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Unread 19-10-2015, 12:53   #9
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There is a bicycle sticker on the door nearest the bike rack, but it's quite small. I've often seen bikes stuffed in the doorwell of 22Ks.

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Unread 19-10-2015, 15:01   #10
James Howard
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Is there an operational reason why 22K trains are randomly arranged or was it just one of those little details that Irish Rail couldn't be bothered with sorting out when putting the sets together in the first place.

It is a minor inconvenience for most people but a more serious problem for people with poor mobility when they have no idea where the accessible car is going to end up.

The bicycle and wheelchair stickers are ridiculously hard to see, being tiny and stuck onto the inside of the tinted glass in the doorway.
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Unread 19-10-2015, 15:27   #11
Jamie2k9
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It cannot be helped, trains get turned on certain routes Waterford/Limerick/WRC etc while units change regularly at Heuston/Connolly etc while the joiners can be very sensitive and dont join up (or not allowed to be joined until repaired at times).

You cannot change this however I don't think bike/wheelchair thing is a major issue, the end coach with a full line of windows and a small gap between them and doors is the bike and the end coach with no windoe some distance from the doors is the wheelchair coach.
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Unread 19-10-2015, 16:13   #12
James Howard
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It's not a major issue, but it's just one of load of silly little issues that combine to make rail travel in Ireland worse than it could be. There are a load of minor irritants like poor signage, random stopping points for short trains, catering trolleys in doorways, bad or wrong PIS information, etc that Irish Rail simply can't be bothered to get right and all combine to make things more difficult for the passenger than they need be.

It's fine for people who travel a lot to be able to recognise that the carriage with a big bit with no windows is the accessible one, but it isn't so easy for the person with poor eyesight who might take the train twice or three times a year for hospital appointments. While operationally arranging trains to be consistent (which doesn't seem to beyond most railways) is a problem for Irish Rail, how difficult would it be to apply significantly bigger decals for wheelchairs and bicycles?

The bicycle thing is a bit of a safety hazard as well as you frequently see eejits cycling up the platform at intermediate stations when when they've guessed the wrong end.
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Unread 19-10-2015, 16:45   #13
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This is getting a little off topic, but a lot of IE staff will stick a wheelchair user in whatever door happens to be nearest. Shouldn't they be putting them in the closest door to the accessible toilet?

IE might not be able to do much about coaches getting turned around, but they could certainly make the wheelchair and bicycle stickers larger and more noticeable.

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Unread 19-10-2015, 16:56   #14
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Quote:
This is getting a little off topic, but a lot of IE staff will stick a wheelchair user in whatever door happens to be nearest. Shouldn't they be putting them in the closest door to the accessible toilet?

IE might not be able to do much about coaches getting turned around, but they could certainly make the wheelchair and bicycle stickers larger and more noticeable.

James
They do not as the 22000 only have one area for wheelchairs which is located next to the accessible toilet.

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It's not a major issue, but it's just one of load of silly little issues that combine to make rail travel in Ireland worse than it could be. There are a load of minor irritants like poor signage, random stopping points for short trains, catering trolleys in doorways, bad or wrong PIS information, etc that Irish Rail simply can't be bothered to get right and all combine to make things more difficult for the passenger than they need be.

It's fine for people who travel a lot to be able to recognise that the carriage with a big bit with no windows is the accessible one, but it isn't so easy for the person with poor eyesight who might take the train twice or three times a year for hospital appointments. While operationally arranging trains to be consistent (which doesn't seem to beyond most railways) is a problem for Irish Rail, how difficult would it be to apply significantly bigger decals for wheelchairs and bicycles?

The bicycle thing is a bit of a safety hazard as well as you frequently see eejits cycling up the platform at intermediate stations when when they've guessed the wrong end.
We are getting a little picky here, Irish Rail will never be prefect nor all public transport company.

A person with poor eye site would be with IE staff and there is no need to seat them in a wheelchair space.

If anything assisting passengers is something IE tend to do well considering some of the respect they show to other passengers.

As for the bikes cycling on platforms no more dangerous than people running for a train.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 19-10-2015 at 17:00.
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Unread 20-10-2015, 08:47   #15
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James summarises well the minor irritants which can combine to make a train a bit of a trial for those not hardened by regular experience.

As regards assisting passengers this is something which is generally done well and with good spirit.

As regards the various PIS systems, they leave a lot to be desired and while platform displays are usually ok when everything is running to schedule they are usually a source of mis-information when most needed.

The real time information on the web site is anything but. For instance last Sunday the the 1747 from Drogheda was almost thirty minutes late departing yet the train was not appearing in the real time enquiry for stations from which the train should already have departed. At Donabate it was being shown as due in five minutes despite not having left Drogheda. The station information was a little better in that it simply showed "Delay".
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Unread 20-10-2015, 09:22   #16
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I thought real-time didn't work at all outside the Dublin area. Or is it enabled on some lines? It should work on the Sligo line since the entire signalling system was replaced only a few years ago but I've never seen real-time info further out than Maynooth.

I'd agree with Inishkeen's assertion that the assistance given to passengers is very good in terms of the personal effort from individual staff members as my dad who has very bad mobility has always had good things to say about Irish Rail. But the organisation could do better particularly in the areas of actually staffing the smaller stations and/or trains and in the Passenger Information Systems.

The Passenger Info seems to have more or less given up on the Sligo line over the last few months. It's 50/50 as to whether it works at all and at one point I was on a train heading towards Dublin watching the distance to the next station actually go up rather than down.
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Unread 20-10-2015, 10:58   #17
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
They do not as the 22000 only have one area for wheelchairs which is located next to the accessible toilet.
Okay, I haven't seen wheelchairs put in inappropriate places on 22Ks, but I see it all the time on 29Ks. It may be only a short trip on a commuter train, but Pearse to Dundalk is around 90 minutes, which can be a long time if you can't get to a toilet.

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Unread 20-10-2015, 12:35   #18
grainne whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
They do not as the 22000 only have one area for wheelchairs which is located next to the accessible toilet.



We are getting a little picky here, Irish Rail will never be prefect nor all public transport company.

A person with poor eye site would be with IE staff and there is no need to seat them in a wheelchair space.

If anything assisting passengers is something IE tend to do well considering some of the respect they show to other passengers.

As for the bikes cycling on platforms no more dangerous than people running for a train.
Personally speaking I would prefer to be knocked over by a person running for a train rather than a cyclist on the platform.
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Unread 20-10-2015, 14:36   #19
Jamie2k9
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I thought real-time didn't work at all outside the Dublin area
All routes have been equipped for real time info but money is needed to finish the projects off.

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Personally speaking I would prefer to be knocked over by a person running for a train rather than a cyclist on the platform.
No real difference to be honest!

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Okay, I haven't seen wheelchairs put in inappropriate places on 22Ks, but I see it all the time on 29Ks. It may be only a short trip on a commuter train, but Pearse to Dundalk is around 90 minutes, which can be a long time if you can't get to a toilet.

James
Maybe so however aren't all toilets on the 29 accessible?
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Unread 20-10-2015, 15:23   #20
James Howard
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Well bikes tend to be harder than people so in general the outcome of a collision with a bike will be worse than that with a person.

Each set of 4 29K cars has one accessible toilet and one regular one. The regular one is considerably bigger than that in a 22K but you wouldn't get a wheelchair into it.
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