Ireland 2040 - Rail Elements.

[ACustomer]

The more one looks at the rail element of the Plan, the worse it gets.

First, Metro North-South. The original Green line (Sandyford-Stephen’s Green) was engineered for heavier Metro trains between Beechwood and Sandyford. The idea was that the line would go underground near Beechwood and on to Stephen’s Green, the airport and Swords. However the Green line has since acquired extensions South to Bride’s Glen and North to Broombridge so any new Metro between Sandyford and Beechwood (or worse, Charlemont) would isolate the two new extensions to the Green line, unless Luas and Metro vehicles were to share the line between Sandyford and Beechwood/Charlemont. One can imagine the timetabling and engineering problems. The newest Metro plans, being proposed a matter of weeks after the luas extension to Broombridge, are shambolic.

Second: electrification. There is some general aspiration to electrify to Maynooth, Balbriggan and possibly Hazlehatch. There is mention that extra tracks may be required over part (?) Of the line to Balbriggan. There is also a mention of hybrid electro-diesel multiple units. However there appears to be no detail, and not even the outline of a coherent plan of implementation, which integrates the progress of electrification with the purchase of new rolling stock. Hybrid trains are coming to the UK, in part because they have cut back on their electrification plans. On the continent they electrify most lines and reap huge benefits in terms of lower operating costs and better service levels. I fear that hybrid rolling stock may lead to endless procrastination when it comes to projects to extend or complete electrification of routes.

Third: Colm McCarthy and other critics. I really wish people would read his recent Indo piece. He made the simple point that the Metro proposals costing €3m have not been subjected to any cost benefit analysis, as apparently required by law. This is not being anti-rail, it’s just arguing for proper project evaluation. McCarthy and the Indo may have written other pieces which are anti-rail, but judge this one on its merits and don’t resort to ad hominem arguments.

I don’t know who should be blamed for this mess, the NTA, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, the Department of Transport, or the Minister in whose constituency Sandyford is situated. I wouldn’t put them in charge of a funfair ride. And Comcor, please don’t even think about mixing Cork suburban rail with some new tram line!

[Ronald Binge]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

The more one looks at the rail element of the Plan, the worse it gets.

First, Metro North-South. The original Green line (Sandyford-Stephen’s Green) was engineered for heavier Metro trains between Beechwood and Sandyford. The idea was that the line would go underground near Beechwood and on to Stephen’s Green, the airport and Swords. However the Green line has since acquired extensions South to Bride’s Glen and North to Broombridge so any new Metro between Sandyford and Beechwood (or worse, Charlemont) would isolate the two new extensions to the Green line, unless Luas and Metro vehicles were to share the line between Sandyford and Beechwood/Charlemont. One can imagine the timetabling and engineering problems. The newest Metro plans, being proposed a matter of weeks after the luas extension to Broombridge, are shambolic.

Second: electrification. There is some general aspiration to electrify to Maynooth, Balbriggan and possibly Hazlehatch. There is mention that extra tracks may be required over part (?) Of the line to Balbriggan. There is also a mention of hybrid electro-diesel multiple units. However there appears to be no detail, and not even the outline of a coherent plan of implementation, which integrates the progress of electrification with the purchase of new rolling stock. Hybrid trains are coming to the UK, in part because they have cut back on their electrification plans. On the continent they electrify most lines and reap huge benefits in terms of lower operating costs and better service levels. I fear that hybrid rolling stock may lead to endless procrastination when it comes to projects to extend or complete electrification of routes.

Third: Colm McCarthy and other critics. I really wish people would read his recent Indo piece. He made the simple point that the Metro proposals costing €3m have not been subjected to any cost benefit analysis, as apparently required by law. This is not being anti-rail, it’s just arguing for proper project evaluation. McCarthy and the Indo may have written other pieces which are anti-rail, but judge this one on its merits and don’t resort to ad hominem arguments.

I don’t know who should be blamed for this mess, the NTA, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, the Department of Transport, or the Minister in whose constituency Sandyford is situated. I wouldn’t put them in charge of a funfair ride. And Comcor, please don’t even think about mixing Cork suburban rail with some new tram line!

Endless procrastination by Official Ireland is at fault. Official Ireland’s attitude that any transport infrastructure above non-prioritised buses is a treat and not the backbone of sustainable development is at fault. Good infrastructure makes the Republic an economy that can sustain itself. Not the miserable, boom-to-bust excuse of a place that keeps the likes of McCarthy comfortable but fecks everyone else.

[ACustomer]

Ronald Binge:

Good infrastructure makes the Republic an economy that can sustain itself. Not the miserable, boom-to-bust excuse of a place that keeps the likes of McCarthy comfortable but fecks everyone else.

So you would like a €3billion project to go ahead without any proper evaluation? If the answer is "no" then why indulge in ad hominem attacks on McCarthy? If the answer is "yes" then this is precisely the reckless attitude to spending public money that has left us with bad or no infrastructure.

[Ronald Binge]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

Ronald Binge:

So you would like a €3billion project to go ahead without any proper evaluation? If the answer is "no" then why indulge in ad hominem attacks on McCarthy? If the answer is "yes" then this is precisely the reckless attitude to spending public money that has left us with bad or no infrastructure.

Well it certainly has left us with neither Metro nor DART Underground.

Adds: Be fascinating to stack up the cost of unbuilt rail proposals from the DRRTS onwards. How much money was spaffed on the original design phase for Metro North and West, and the cost of the box at the Mater, for example? These are sunk costs but it seems very easy to blow money on plans that can get waved around and then buried for whole decades.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Ronald Binge

Well it certainly has left us with neither Metro nor DART Underground.

Adds: Be fascinating to stack up the cost of unbuilt rail proposals from the DRRTS onwards. How much money was spaffed on the original design phase for Metro North and West, and the cost of the box at the Mater, for example? These are sunk costs but it seems very easy to blow money on plans that can get waved around and then buried for whole decades.

We have spent close to 100 million on the planning for Metro North, West, DU, KRP2, Airport DART as well as some property acquisition.

Well you can throw in the entire Red Luas, that was the 'cheap' alternative to bringing the DART to Tallaght and Clondalkin

[ACustomer]

Mark, you could also throw in the new cross-city LUAS, which in many respects a cheapo substitute to Metro North most of the way to Finglas, and which may be "stranded" if the Metro North-South goes ahead. What a circus.

[Mark Gleeson]

Thats exactly it stop gap short term thinking