Luas Strike Dates Announced

[Mark Gleeson]

Hard to judge if this is a well thought out plan to cause chaos or just the way of things.

SIPTU cannot win against Transdev, they will probably end up with 3% a year

DART is a different game, the actual reason for the dispute is unclear. A timetable change is nothing new and comes under 'normal business change' there is no change in driving hours or breaks everything stays within the existing agreements. But due running more trains rostering will be more efficient so excessively long breaks might vanish. The only issue is a slightly earlier start but the existing agreement covers 24hours-364 day a year so no claim will stand up. Bit like the 8 coach DART claim which was thrown out.

[Jamie2k9]

SIPTU cannot win against Transdev, they will probably end up with 3% a year

Question is when will the penny drop, I really don't think SIPTU would vote for a complete shutdown.

When will staff start to realize they need to talk, 2,600 lost + 8 days pay if Easter goes ahead. I'm sure some of them will really be feeling it now.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Hard to judge if this is a well thought out plan to cause chaos or just the way of things.

SIPTU cannot win against Transdev, they will probably end up with 3% a year

DART is a different game, the actual reason for the dispute is unclear. A timetable change is nothing new and comes under 'normal business change' there is no change in driving hours or breaks everything stays within the existing agreements. But due running more trains rostering will be more efficient so excessively long breaks might vanish. The only issue is a slightly earlier start but the existing agreement covers 24hours-364 day a year so no claim will stand up. Bit like the 8 coach DART claim which was thrown out.

I must say I am a bit puzzled by the DART dispute although shorter breaks and previously fudged issues carried forward or kicked down the road may be the root cause - how was payment for previous productivity resolved ?

It will be a bit ironic if services are disrupted in the pursuit of changes which are of minimal benefit to DART users and so negative for everybody else !

[Thomas J Stamp]

I was surprised at the DART action, I thought the 10 min timetable was kicked back till much later this year than April.

Strikes in CIE can be over things which we find odd. For example the introduction of the RA double deck fleet caused a strike as they were about 4 ft longer than the R type double deckers. Sticking with tradition.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

I was surprised at the DART action, I thought the 10 min timetable was kicked back till much later this year than April.

Strikes in CIE can be over things which we find odd. For example the introduction of the RA double deck fleet caused a strike as they were about 4 ft longer than the R type double deckers. Sticking with tradition.

To clarify, there are two Connolly timetables in the pipeline:

1) Recast timetables including 10 minute DART service
2) Post-City Centre re-signalling including Kildare line to Grand Canal Dock

The first was due in January and now is April, while the second isn't due until later in the year.

[Thomas J Stamp]

well, thats really dumb.

[James Howard]

There is no logical reason for the 10 minute DART timetable to run for 6 months. None. The only possible reason is that Irish Rail don't want to look stupid by cancelling it.

DART passengers make up 44% of Irish Rail passengers by numbers yet probably around 10 - 15% by revenue yet everyone else is being hammered to suit. Nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that DART serves the richest parts of the city?

No company being run on a sound financial basis would put the interests of 90% of its revenue behind that of 10%.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

well, thats really dumb.

That was always the plan as I understand it - not sure why you thought otherwise nor why there should be an issue with it?

GB rail timetables change every May and December for example.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Howard

There is no logical reason for the 10 minute DART timetable to run for 6 months. None. The only possible reason is that Irish Rail don't want to look stupid by cancelling it.

DART passengers make up 44% of Irish Rail passengers by numbers yet probably around 10 - 15% by revenue yet everyone else is being hammered to suit. Nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that DART serves the richest parts of the city?

No company being run on a sound financial basis would put the interests of 90% of its revenue behind that of 10%.

The 10 minute DART service would continue after the resignalling is complete - it's just the operation of the commuter services would change with most using the turnback platforms at GCD rather than terminating at Pearse and more trains would use the loop line bridge (Kildare Line services for example).

I would suggest that the reality is that the funding has been allocated for it from government via the NTA and DART drivers have been recruited and trained. Not spending it could see the money lost.

Why would they delay it another six months given that?

Train timetables across the water change every May and December - they don't seem to see a problem with it.

[Jamie2k9]

8 March strike cancelled so takes can happen on Monday.

[James Howard]

The reason why it should be delayed six months are

1. It makes the service significantly worse for everyone except DART users
2. The only DART users who will benefit are those travelling less than about 4 stops. For all others, the increased journey time will more than absorb the reduced wait time.
3. The unions object and we can expect disruption

So what if money is lost - there is no point in spending money making the service on balance worse for everyone. If the city centre resignalling allow 10 minute DART with significantly less disruption elsewhere, then go with it when the system is ready. If not, serious questions need to be asked about the spending for 120 million of public money with no positive results on customer experience.

A cynic might suggest that the urgency is because we're in for six months of hell in putting a timetable in place that the system can't cope with and when the resignalling project is complete we'll all be so grateful for the improvement that we'll think that was money well spent and all is good.

Also, I fail to see why we should do stuff that they do across the water. The UK is hardly a paragon of excellence in rail operations.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Howard

The reason why it should be delayed six months are

1. It makes the service significantly worse for everyone except DART users
2. The only DART users who will benefit are those travelling less than about 4 stops. For all others, the increased journey time will more than absorb the reduced wait time.
3. The unions object and we can expect disruption

So what if money is lost - there is no point in spending money making the service on balance worse for everyone. If the city centre resignalling allow 10 minute DART with significantly less disruption elsewhere, then go with it when the system is ready. If not, serious questions need to be asked about the spending for 120 million of public money with no positive results on customer experience.

A cynic might suggest that the urgency is because we're in for six months of hell in putting a timetable in place that the system can't cope with and when the resignalling project is complete we'll all be so grateful for the improvement that we'll think that was money well spent and all is good.

So therefore you'd be happy for the newly recruited DART drivers to be effectively sitting around doing damn all for six months? That's effectively what's going to happen if it's deferred again.

As a taxpayer I'm not happy with that.

Nor do I think that the completion of the city centre re-signalling project is going to make that much difference with regard to the 10 minute DART service. The entire northern half of the DART line is already re-signalled.

As I have posted before, I think the extended DART running times in the proposed timetable are in fact a reflection of the reality that the trains are actually taking longer than the current schedule allows - therefore I don't see any point in retaining a timetable that doesn't reflect reality. If the schedule can't be achieved, then it needs to be changed. Therefore people will be gaining from a more reliable timetable.

Your earlier comment about DART serving "rich areas" is really pushing things a bit. For all the so called "rich areas", there are also large working class areas along the DART line, so I really think that's a daft argument.

Originally Posted by James Howard

Also, I fail to see why we should do stuff that they do across the water. The UK is hardly a paragon of excellence in rail operations.

Six monthly timetable changes are actually one of the better practices - it gives certainty about when changes will happen, and it allows changes to happen at least twice a year as infrastructure/rolling stock allows, rather than wait for a single annual change.

[Jamie2k9]

I must say I am a bit puzzled by the DART dispute although shorter breaks and previously fudged issues carried forward or kicked down the road may be the root cause - how was payment for previous productivity resolved ?

If I'm correct there was due to be a 3 or 4 month window for discussions, if it was 4 it would more less only be coming to an end around now.

I was surprised at the DART action, I thought the 10 min timetable was kicked back till much later this year than April.

Strikes in CIE can be over things which we find odd. For example the introduction of the RA double deck fleet caused a strike as they were about 4 ft longer than the R type double deckers. Sticking with tradition.

It was always 10 April, I think they planned on publishing the schedule next week, they might take a rain check in light of this.

To clarify, there are two Connolly timetables in the pipeline:

1) Recast timetables including 10 minute DART service
2) Post-City Centre re-signalling including Kildare line to Grand Canal Dock

The first was due in January and now is April, while the second isn't due until later in the year.

Really, such a wast we spent 3 years with one timetable and then get two within a year. Give the PPT services will be factored into the current one and there will be no further increase in service how necessary is one. They should just wait so, the election gimmick never worked so put it to bed until end of the year.

So therefore you'd be happy for the newly recruited DART drivers to be effectively sitting around doing damn all for six months? That's effectively what's going to happen if it's deferred again.

As a taxpayer I'm not happy with that.

With respect they have been doing for months already (towards end of last year), another 5 will do no harm.

Better to do things right.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

So therefore you'd be happy for the newly recruited DART drivers to be effectively sitting around doing damn all for six months? That's effectively what's going to happen if it's deferred again.

Rather see them sitting round doing nothing than driving unneeded services, the principal impact of which will be to create delays and congestion.

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Nor do I think that the completion of the city centre re-signalling project is going to make that much difference with regard to the 10 minute DART service. The entire northern half of the DART line is already re-signalled.

The next section of the city centre re-signalling is the most significant as it will allow extra services across the loop line and provide purpose designed turn-back. Should be commissioned later this year provided the RSC don't sit on it for a year or two !

The new signalling should allow a train to turn back at Grand Canal Dock and a 2nd turn-back service to stand outside Grand Canal Dock without impeding through services in either direction.

Originally Posted by berneyarms

As I have posted before, I think the extended DART running times in the proposed timetable are in fact a reflection of the reality that the trains are actually taking longer than the current schedule allows - therefore I don't see any point in retaining a timetable that doesn't reflect reality. If the schedule can't be achieved, then it needs to be changed. Therefore people will be gaining from a more reliable timetable.

I am not convinced by this argument. One of the consistent complaints on the Irish Rail twitter feed is the early departure of DARTs (and other trains), particularly at off-peak periods. Even services like the 0730 from Greystones often depart Connolly early. Some off peak DARTs frequently run 3 or 4 minutes early depending on the driving style. The incrementally increased allowances over the years has engendered a somewhat disinterested driving style and a very relaxed attitude to station stops.

The nonsense of crew changing at Fairview is another factor which adds delay and congestion.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

That was always the plan as I understand it - not sure why you thought otherwise nor why there should be an issue with it?

GB rail timetables change every May and December for example.

its dumb to press ahead with one timetable change which is causing friction when it can be pushed back to the other timetabnle change and you can put them both in together and use the time to sort out the problems.

as for waste of taxpayers money during this time well, as another tax payer i am grand with it as long as the time now is spent wisely to secure long term future stability.

[Jamie2k9]

SIPTU cannot win against Transdev, they will probably end up with 3% a year

Reported SIPTU have dropped to around 6% per year for 5 years but NBRU says bus drivers will require whatever % increase Luas get.

[James Howard]

As a matter of interest, does RUI have an official position on the new timetable. Is there any widespread support among Irish Rail customers for it? If not, why is this being rammed through when it results in a cost increase?

[Jamie2k9]

So all out strike on the cards as it appears the drivers are the only greedy grade. I'm not sure SIPTU will have the conviction to carry it out. Prefect opportunity to hire some new staff once notice is issued.

As a matter of interest, does RUI have an official position on the new timetable. Is there any widespread support among Irish Rail customers for it? If not, why is this being rammed through when it results in a cost increase?

They got under 2,600 feedback on the timetable, if you exclude DART users (what have they to complain about?) it is low enough however there will always be a % who will just leave and not complain.

[Mark Gleeson]

Lets stick to the Luas strike issue in this thread please

[Jamie2k9]

Another 4 days in April after one another, 3 other grads are back in WRC tomorrow and deal seem's likely.

Link to what perks staff get:
http://www.transdevireland.ie/joinus.html