M-F 17:31 Commuter service from Pearse to Gorey

michael klyne · 04-09-2006, 10:45

Commuters have been advised that 17:31 Commuter service from Pearse to Gorey will only have 4 carriages rather than 6 until further notice.
This train is over loaded with commuters to Dun Laoghaire, Daly and Greystones because of bad timetable scheduling.
The Gorey train is used very heavily by commuters to Greystones as the previous train is at 16:57.
The two DART services, 17:14 & 17:19, to Daly before the Gorey train are very often cancelled.

Questions -
1. Where have the two carriages gone to?
2. Why cannot 17:19 DART go through to Greystones?
3. Why are 17:14 & 17:19 DART services very often cancelled?

Maynooth_Line · 04-09-2006, 11:14

My guess would be that they've replaced a 6 carriage 2800 DMU with a 4 carriage 29000 DMU. I'm sure Mark will come back with the real reason shortly though!

Mark Gleeson · 04-09-2006, 11:38

There is nothing wrong with the timetabling its the single line section to Greystones which makes it tricky, its fine in the morning since its all one way and it can cope but in the evening the coaches need to go back to Howth, you are looking at 30 minute gaps in this case and no amount of timetable trickery will solve it, blame Michael Lowry

I am aware that the normal train set used, one of the 2800 units has being giving serious trouble, 3 breakdowns in 2 weeks. As a result the spare 29000 set in Drogheda has been sent out (it did the run on Friday), they are bullet proof reliable and they actually can manage the destination display (we asked). Now in theory they could send a 8 coach set down most days but the platforms can't take it and its forbidden to use a train with automatic doors longer than the platform on that route, thats not IE rules but the Rail Safety Commission

The 17:14 starts from Connolly, due to 2 separate management goof ups in Irish Rail they are currently short a total of 24 DART coaches. I am aware on Friday last a 6 coach set was pulled with a fault. Specfic dates would be helpful, managers tend to deny all unless we can prove it happened. I can't go into serious detail on what has gone wrong but a €40 million euro contract has gone sour, outside IE and the other company and there legal people we are the only people in the world to know the story, we got part of the contract terms thanks to the EU, keep an eye on the papers.

There is a 17:55 departure out of Greystones (thats the 16:57 ex Pearse coming back) that makes it impossible for either the 17:10, 17:14 or 17:19 to run beyond Bray, the next available gap at Bray south opens at 18:05 and the Gorey train leaves at 18:06

Don't bother writting to the DART manager since he will deny the problem, promise a solution and not deliver, I'm still waiting on the new maps I was promised hell I managed to get one thanks to a contact outside IE! you could try but its two different people, one for DART another for Suburban, http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/whoswho.php#IE

Oh the Chief Exec of IE Dick Fearn does travel home by DART and he does live south of Dun Laoghaire, (hint sit in the front coach)

michael klyne · 04-09-2006, 14:15

I know about single line problem!
I know about 30 minute gap!
I know about lack of rolling stock!

Why cannot timetable be changed so that 16:40 DART Pearse go through to Greystones rather than 16:57 and then time for 17:14 or 17:20 Dart Pearse to go through and wait until Gorey ARROW clear?

The overcrowding is intoleable with some passengers standing from Connolly to at least Greystones and sometimes beyond.

michael klyne · 04-09-2006, 14:59

Rumour has it that an additional early early 18:00 Gorey to Dublin service to start in December!
All part of the grand service to get as many of us lemmings up to Dublin BUT provide no service home.

What about 16:00 Dublin/Gorey service to stop over the cliff evening exodus?

Mark Gleeson · 04-09-2006, 15:43

Standing is a fact of life no amount of playing with the timetable will solve that, thats physical lack of coaches problem and the coaches used are designed for standing. Overcrowding going south has not reached even close to what the Maynooth line is like, which is verging on dangerous, they are first in the queue for extra services and rightly so

If you move the 16:57 back you lose a connection in from Maynooth and you piss off a large number of people on that train, assuming the 17:10 (17:14 is a no go since it comes from Connolly leaves northside out) then got to Greystones it would leave at 18:18 arrive Bray 18:28 and get in the way of the 17:44 from Pearse which is meant to be in Greystones for 18:35, it get delayed by 3 minutes plus the time the Gorey train was late into Greystones its a house of cards, everything falls down one extra train to Greystones means a need an extra driver, possibly another set of coaches neither are available

Simplest solution would be to kill the DART service to Greystones and stick on a railcar to shuttle back and forwards every 30 minutes that neatly avoids the problems, delays and provides a better service level for less money, you can have two trains going in the same direction at a time so the Gorey/Rosslare services can slip in behind the shuttle service. Greystones should never have been put on the DART it was a waste of money, its a liability in cost and operational terms, the service collapsed once it went live and it was extermely painful, it was a cynical election stunt by Michael Lowry, FG lost the seat anyway, same money would have put Skerries (in % population terms the busiest station already) on the DART and packed it to the roof

There will be an extra service into Dublin ( to Maynooth most likely) in the morning getting in roughly 7:45-8am in the medium term however thats speculation really (would mean one less DART service from Greystones as well), going back if there is an extra morning train there will be an extra evening train best guess is just after 9pm. In % terms Irish Rail are short more coaches than Dublin Bus are short buses, we already know Irish Rail won't be able to match there commitments in services so what is already promised is not coming anything above the baseline offering is off

Mark Gleeson · 04-09-2006, 16:35

29000 unit is running the Gorey suburban this evening

It has destination correct front, back and sides

craigybagel · 08-09-2006, 00:05

Still on the route on the 6th complete with the announcements mentioned by mark. i know theyre necessary in this day and age for lots of reasons but travelling from wicklow on the afternoon run with the following: "this train is for Maynooth Calling at Kilcoole, Greystones, Bray, Shankill, Dalkey, Glenegeary, Dun Laoghaire, Blackrock, Booterstown, Sydney Parade, Sandymount, Lansdowne Road, Grand Canal Dock, Pearse, Tara Street, Dublin Connolly, Drumcondra, Drumcondra (repition IEs not mine), Broombridge, Ashtown, Castleknock, Coolmine, Clonsilla, Leixlip Confey, Leixlip Louisa Bridge and Maynooth." Now imagine this being played after every station, albeit with one less from the list each time, extra loud as the speakers where yesterday for some reason, and the announcements just before we arrived at a station, and that arrival announcement again each time just to make sure, and suddenly you start to miss the 2800s!

michael klyne · 08-09-2006, 10:07

Announcements from Wicklow onwards are consistently wrong!!!!!!!!

6 Sept - Aircon failed and annoucements are garbage.
7 Sept - Announcement at Rathdrum spoke about Connolly.
8 Sept - 06:45 Gorey/Dundalk engine on 2805 stopped at Blackrock.

craigybagel · 08-09-2006, 20:46

That mean the 2800s are back again? sorry if i sound like a nerd just curious....

Mark Gleeson · 08-09-2006, 21:03

Its not clear what train is which here which isn't helping

Yes the 6:45 was delayed in Blackrock, it was no more than 5 minutes down not a issue wouldn't even show up

2800 units don't have AC, the 29000 do that said the thermostat is set between 18 and 21 as such it will switch off the cooling element in the current weather

The 2800 units despite IE little story are alive and well the just ain't running the evening Gorey service, they run the morning one.

craigybagel · 09-09-2006, 15:47

2800s back on the afternoon run today

James Shields · 10-09-2006, 14:59

Would it be practical to have an 8-car 2900 from Connolly to Greystones, then break it in two to continue on to Gorey?

Mark Gleeson · 10-09-2006, 15:47

No point, having spoken to a passenger of the 6:45 ex Gorey its significantly quieter than the DART services either side, thus no increase is justifed. The train is equiped for a large number of standees

The 17:31 Pearse Gorey is equally not close to full as a 6 coach train, there are a few 4 coach trains which deserve an upgrade

End of the day its fairly pointless to have half the trains crush load and half with only a handfull standing moving things around to level it so the level of crowding is broadly similar is fair

craigybagel · 10-09-2006, 21:48

Very true most people on the evening Gorey can find a seat and those who dont should get one by Bray its a lot better than on the Droghedas and Maynooths. Also worth bearing in mind there are two buses to wicklow, one extended to rathdrum and arklow, going at exactly the same time and they arent exactly heaving either.

Thomas Ralph · 24-09-2007, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Shields

Would it be practical to have an 8-car 2900 from Connolly to Greystones, then break it in two to continue on to Gorey?

That would make sense. Therefore, it'll never happen.

04-09-2006, 10:45	#1
michael klyne New to the board Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	M-F 17:31 Commuter service from Pearse to Gorey Commuters have been advised that 17:31 Commuter service from Pearse to Gorey will only have 4 carriages rather than 6 until further notice. This train is over loaded with commuters to Dun Laoghaire, Daly and Greystones because of bad timetable scheduling. The Gorey train is used very heavily by commuters to Greystones as the previous train is at 16:57. The two DART services, 17:14 & 17:19, to Daly before the Gorey train are very often cancelled. Questions - 1. Where have the two carriages gone to? 2. Why cannot 17:19 DART go through to Greystones? 3. Why are 17:14 & 17:19 DART services very often cancelled?

04-09-2006, 11:38	#3
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	There is nothing wrong with the timetabling its the single line section to Greystones which makes it tricky, its fine in the morning since its all one way and it can cope but in the evening the coaches need to go back to Howth, you are looking at 30 minute gaps in this case and no amount of timetable trickery will solve it, blame Michael Lowry I am aware that the normal train set used, one of the 2800 units has being giving serious trouble, 3 breakdowns in 2 weeks. As a result the spare 29000 set in Drogheda has been sent out (it did the run on Friday), they are bullet proof reliable and they actually can manage the destination display (we asked). Now in theory they could send a 8 coach set down most days but the platforms can't take it and its forbidden to use a train with automatic doors longer than the platform on that route, thats not IE rules but the Rail Safety Commission The 17:14 starts from Connolly, due to 2 separate management goof ups in Irish Rail they are currently short a total of 24 DART coaches. I am aware on Friday last a 6 coach set was pulled with a fault. Specfic dates would be helpful, managers tend to deny all unless we can prove it happened. I can't go into serious detail on what has gone wrong but a €40 million euro contract has gone sour, outside IE and the other company and there legal people we are the only people in the world to know the story, we got part of the contract terms thanks to the EU, keep an eye on the papers. There is a 17:55 departure out of Greystones (thats the 16:57 ex Pearse coming back) that makes it impossible for either the 17:10, 17:14 or 17:19 to run beyond Bray, the next available gap at Bray south opens at 18:05 and the Gorey train leaves at 18:06 Don't bother writting to the DART manager since he will deny the problem, promise a solution and not deliver, I'm still waiting on the new maps I was promised hell I managed to get one thanks to a contact outside IE! you could try but its two different people, one for DART another for Suburban, http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/whoswho.php#IE Oh the Chief Exec of IE Dick Fearn does travel home by DART and he does live south of Dun Laoghaire, (hint sit in the front coach) Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 04-09-2006 at 11:46.

04-09-2006, 14:15	#4
michael klyne New to the board Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	17:31 Pearse/Gorey passenger carrier. I know about single line problem! I know about 30 minute gap! I know about lack of rolling stock! Why cannot timetable be changed so that 16:40 DART Pearse go through to Greystones rather than 16:57 and then time for 17:14 or 17:20 Dart Pearse to go through and wait until Gorey ARROW clear? The overcrowding is intoleable with some passengers standing from Connolly to at least Greystones and sometimes beyond.

04-09-2006, 14:59	#5
michael klyne New to the board Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	Dublin/Gorey lemming service Rumour has it that an additional early early 18:00 Gorey to Dublin service to start in December! All part of the grand service to get as many of us lemmings up to Dublin BUT provide no service home. What about 16:00 Dublin/Gorey service to stop over the cliff evening exodus?

04-09-2006, 15:43	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Standing is a fact of life no amount of playing with the timetable will solve that, thats physical lack of coaches problem and the coaches used are designed for standing. Overcrowding going south has not reached even close to what the Maynooth line is like, which is verging on dangerous, they are first in the queue for extra services and rightly so If you move the 16:57 back you lose a connection in from Maynooth and you piss off a large number of people on that train, assuming the 17:10 (17:14 is a no go since it comes from Connolly leaves northside out) then got to Greystones it would leave at 18:18 arrive Bray 18:28 and get in the way of the 17:44 from Pearse which is meant to be in Greystones for 18:35, it get delayed by 3 minutes plus the time the Gorey train was late into Greystones its a house of cards, everything falls down one extra train to Greystones means a need an extra driver, possibly another set of coaches neither are available Simplest solution would be to kill the DART service to Greystones and stick on a railcar to shuttle back and forwards every 30 minutes that neatly avoids the problems, delays and provides a better service level for less money, you can have two trains going in the same direction at a time so the Gorey/Rosslare services can slip in behind the shuttle service. Greystones should never have been put on the DART it was a waste of money, its a liability in cost and operational terms, the service collapsed once it went live and it was extermely painful, it was a cynical election stunt by Michael Lowry, FG lost the seat anyway, same money would have put Skerries (in % population terms the busiest station already) on the DART and packed it to the roof There will be an extra service into Dublin ( to Maynooth most likely) in the morning getting in roughly 7:45-8am in the medium term however thats speculation really (would mean one less DART service from Greystones as well), going back if there is an extra morning train there will be an extra evening train best guess is just after 9pm. In % terms Irish Rail are short more coaches than Dublin Bus are short buses, we already know Irish Rail won't be able to match there commitments in services so what is already promised is not coming anything above the baseline offering is off Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 04-09-2006 at 15:47.

04-09-2006, 11:14	#2
Maynooth_Line Regular Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 54	My guess would be that they've replaced a 6 carriage 2800 DMU with a 4 carriage 29000 DMU. I'm sure Mark will come back with the real reason shortly though!

04-09-2006, 16:35	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	29000 unit is running the Gorey suburban this evening It has destination correct front, back and sides

08-09-2006, 00:05	#8
craigybagel Regular Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wicklow Kilbarrack cork and all stations between Posts: 74	Still on the route on the 6th complete with the announcements mentioned by mark. i know theyre necessary in this day and age for lots of reasons but travelling from wicklow on the afternoon run with the following: "this train is for Maynooth Calling at Kilcoole, Greystones, Bray, Shankill, Dalkey, Glenegeary, Dun Laoghaire, Blackrock, Booterstown, Sydney Parade, Sandymount, Lansdowne Road, Grand Canal Dock, Pearse, Tara Street, Dublin Connolly, Drumcondra, Drumcondra (repition IEs not mine), Broombridge, Ashtown, Castleknock, Coolmine, Clonsilla, Leixlip Confey, Leixlip Louisa Bridge and Maynooth." Now imagine this being played after every station, albeit with one less from the list each time, extra loud as the speakers where yesterday for some reason, and the announcements just before we arrived at a station, and that arrival announcement again each time just to make sure, and suddenly you start to miss the 2800s!

08-09-2006, 10:07	#9
michael klyne New to the board Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	More facility failures Announcements from Wicklow onwards are consistently wrong!!!!!!!! 6 Sept - Aircon failed and annoucements are garbage. 7 Sept - Announcement at Rathdrum spoke about Connolly. 8 Sept - 06:45 Gorey/Dundalk engine on 2805 stopped at Blackrock.

08-09-2006, 20:46	#10
craigybagel Regular Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wicklow Kilbarrack cork and all stations between Posts: 74	That mean the 2800s are back again? sorry if i sound like a nerd just curious....

08-09-2006, 21:03	#11
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its not clear what train is which here which isn't helping Yes the 6:45 was delayed in Blackrock, it was no more than 5 minutes down not a issue wouldn't even show up 2800 units don't have AC, the 29000 do that said the thermostat is set between 18 and 21 as such it will switch off the cooling element in the current weather The 2800 units despite IE little story are alive and well the just ain't running the evening Gorey service, they run the morning one.

09-09-2006, 15:47	#12
craigybagel Regular Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wicklow Kilbarrack cork and all stations between Posts: 74	2800s back on the afternoon run today

10-09-2006, 14:59	#13
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	Would it be practical to have an 8-car 2900 from Connolly to Greystones, then break it in two to continue on to Gorey?

10-09-2006, 15:47	#14
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	No point, having spoken to a passenger of the 6:45 ex Gorey its significantly quieter than the DART services either side, thus no increase is justifed. The train is equiped for a large number of standees The 17:31 Pearse Gorey is equally not close to full as a 6 coach train, there are a few 4 coach trains which deserve an upgrade End of the day its fairly pointless to have half the trains crush load and half with only a handfull standing moving things around to level it so the level of crowding is broadly similar is fair

10-09-2006, 21:48	#15
craigybagel Regular Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wicklow Kilbarrack cork and all stations between Posts: 74	Very true most people on the evening Gorey can find a seat and those who dont should get one by Bray its a lot better than on the Droghedas and Maynooths. Also worth bearing in mind there are two buses to wicklow, one extended to rathdrum and arklow, going at exactly the same time and they arent exactly heaving either.

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