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Unread 05-09-2016, 15:13   #1
Jamie2k9
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Default Public Consultation PPT & Heuston Services 2016

Not had a look but minor changes to sum Heuston services as a result.


http://www.irishrail.ie/news/phoenix...icconsultation
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Unread 05-09-2016, 19:09   #2
ThomasJ
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Yep services to gcd will be peak time only for the time being.
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Unread 05-09-2016, 19:22   #3
Jamie2k9
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These are the changes to existing services I can see:
08.30 to Portlaoise - Advanced to 08.25
17.20 to Portlaoise - Deferred to 17.25
17.25 to Limerick - Advanced to 17.20
17.55 to Newbridge - Cancelled
18.10 to Portlaoise - Advanced to 18.05
18.55 to Portlaoise - Deferred 19.05

06.05 from Waterford - Advanced to 06.00
07.20 from Portlaoise - Advanced to 07.17
19.15 from Newbridge - Cancelled

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 05-09-2016 at 19:25.
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Unread 06-09-2016, 12:57   #4
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Useless for me as the are no Feeder Bus times shown fron Celbridge to / from Hazelhatch Station - it looks I will be applying for a Dublin Bus Taxsaver Ticket this year for the first time in the umpteen years of having such a Rail (Short Hop) Taxsaver Ticket.
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Unread 06-09-2016, 16:09   #5
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gw: If bus feeder times from Hazlehatch are not shown, you should enquire about them. It doesn't mean that there aren't any, just that a draft rail timetable hasn't listed them, possibly because the whole thing is only a draft and buses will be finalised only when the train arrangements are finalised.
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Unread 06-09-2016, 17:31   #6
grainne whale
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Thanks for that but I have to apply for my Annual Taxsaver Ticket next month - what am I supposed to do with it, if the Feeder Bus does not suit the trains that I generally use to get to Heuston. It won't be possible for (Birchalls) to provide extra buses to service trains to GCD as well, as they also run School Buses in the Celbridge area. I am assuming that the times of the Feeder Bus will be changed to connect with both services. I cant see the point in hanging around at Hazelhatch Station just to get a train that brings me into Heuston.

Last edited by grainne whale : 06-09-2016 at 17:33.
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Unread 06-09-2016, 21:15   #7
Colm Moore
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What specific changes would people like?

In pushing for faster trains, the number of connections lost is huge. From Cork to Westport, the first arrival of the day is is 15:55(!), it could be 10:55.

The seem to not be stopping the PPT trains at Platform 10 and it seems Kishogue isn't opening.

One of the early morning Limerick Colbert to Heuston services should start at Ennis. Based on the draft timetable, the earliest arrival in Heuston from Ennis is 09:47 (via Athenry).
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Unread 06-09-2016, 23:45   #8
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Quote:
What specific changes would people like?
This appears to only be a temp schedule to get it up on running. I would expect another in 2017 when PPT is expanded and they cut IC times.

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The seem to not be stopping the PPT trains at Platform 10 and it seems Kishogue isn't opening.
They can't...

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One of the early morning Limerick Colbert to Heuston services should start at Ennis. Based on the draft timetable, the earliest arrival in Heuston from Ennis is 09:47 (via Athenry).
I don't see any radical changes such as a remove possibility of an Ennis link as it's incredibility difficult because of the 40 minute single track journey. The only way you could fit it in would be converting the 05.55 Galway to an ICR and joining up the regular 06.40 set and run to Ennis at 05.10 and split continuing to Galway and the return to Heuston departing at 05.55. You then have platfrom issues and all. I don't think they can do much as the 05.55 is a big commuter in Galway and the 06.50 to Limerick from Ennis is probally a busy commuter service and touching them could cost IE more than a direct Dublin service is worth.
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Unread 07-09-2016, 06:52   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm Moore View Post
What specific changes would people like?

In pushing for faster trains, the number of connections lost is huge. From Cork to Westport, the first arrival of the day is is 15:55(!), it could be 10:55.

The seem to not be stopping the PPT trains at Platform 10 and it seems Kishogue isn't opening.

One of the early morning Limerick Colbert to Heuston services should start at Ennis. Based on the draft timetable, the earliest arrival in Heuston from Ennis is 09:47 (via Athenry).
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself Colm. This is purely a timetable change to get the PPT trains up and running, rather than a complete Heuston timetable change. The changes to other Heuston trains are just to let the PPT trains operate.

I wouldn't expect any major changes on the Heuston side until the ballast cleaning programme on the Dublin/Cork line is completed. At that point then I would be hoping for a recast. But that's not likely to happen until the end of next year.

P10 cannot be used as there is no crossover for trains heading north beyond it. Given the remote nature of the platform, the limited nature of the service, and the fact that Heuston still has the same level of service as before I don't really see any point.
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Unread 12-09-2016, 14:56   #10
Colm Moore
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P10 cannot be used as there is no crossover for trains heading north beyond it.
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realise that the crossovers where in parallel instead of sequence. They need to move the crossover ... or build Platform 11. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/53.34726/-6.30417

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Given the remote nature of the platform,
Not as remote as one might think - thousands of people live right next to it and many more pass right by on the bus.

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the limited nature of the service, and the fact that Heuston still has the same level of service as before I don't really see any point.
Where once we had two 'never the twain shall meet' networks* with dysfunctional links, we will now have one (heavy rail) network. Each additional node on the network is worth more than the previous one. The opportunities are vast and the investment needed is modest.

* The splitting of the networks only really happened in the 1980s when Galway services were moved to Heuston.
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Unread 12-09-2016, 15:14   #11
berneyarms
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Originally Posted by Colm Moore View Post
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realise that the crossovers where in parallel instead of sequence. They need to move the crossover ... or build Platform 11. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/53.34726/-6.30417

Not as remote as one might think - thousands of people live right next to it and many more pass right by on the bus.

Where once we had two 'never the twain shall meet' networks* with dysfunctional links, we will now have one (heavy rail) network. Each additional node on the network is worth more than the previous one. The opportunities are vast and the investment needed is modest.

* The splitting of the networks only really happened in the 1980s when Galway services were moved to Heuston.
The cost of putting in a crossover and/or access to Conyngham Road would far outweigh the approved cost of the project. There is no clearance room either side of the tracks so what you would need would be an over-track concourse with very long ramps. Not cheap.

There needs to be an element of realism here - it's a low cost project.

If service levels improve significantly in the medium term then I'd agree with you but right now it ain't going to happen.

None of that is within the scope of this consultation frankly.
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Unread 15-09-2016, 13:05   #12
Jamie2k9
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Remember submissions close on Monday.
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Unread 11-11-2016, 16:59   #13
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21 November start date, loaded in JP.
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Unread 11-11-2016, 18:37   #14
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Have they worked out what they're going to charge people yet?
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Unread 11-11-2016, 19:09   #15
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Presumably they will use the fare zones per the recent fare determination with the existing fares.

Formal announcement should come Monday
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Unread 11-11-2016, 22:34   #16
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Presumably they will use the fare zones per the recent fare determination with the existing fares.

Formal announcement should come Monday
Hopefully they'll have fares for P2P annuals as well.
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Unread 12-11-2016, 07:57   #17
James Howard
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So here we are 10 days out before opening and nobody knows what using this new service is going to cost.

Imagine this scene in a private business.
1. I have a piece of infrastructure sitting semi-idle for around 100 years that I can't be bothered to use
2. My board of directors forces me to use this infrastructure and hands me some free money to tidy it up.
3. I invest said free money and tidy things up
4. I do service planning, make usage projections, allocate operational capacity, train staff, etc.
5. Then I decide what I'm going charge customers
6. I expect business to come flocking to me and new customers to all abandon my competitors who they've been dealing with for years.

Is it just me or would this not be an ideal way to go about doing business if one expected to be profitable and stay in business?
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Unread 12-11-2016, 09:10   #18
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Did anyone spot any changes from the original draft or was the public consultation simply a wasted exercise ?

Where has the extra rolling stock come from ? Is it simply stock released by resurrecting the MK4 ?

Anybody open a book on whether it will happen on November 21st given that Irish Rail have been stalling for months using the "we are reviewing the public consultation" excuse.

There are almost zero interchange opportunities with Heuston based Intercity services despite the availability of almost unlimited idle capacity at the expansive Kildare route stations.

Given the poor integration with Heuston services and the very limited opportunities to travel to/from stations beyond Hazelhatch the new service will largely depend on business generated by the inner stations between ParkWest and Hazelhatch. Might be a slow build up but time will tell !
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Unread 12-11-2016, 12:05   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Howard View Post
So here we are 10 days out before opening and nobody knows what using this new service is going to cost.

Imagine this scene in a private business.
1. I have a piece of infrastructure sitting semi-idle for around 100 years that I can't be bothered to use
2. My board of directors forces me to use this infrastructure and hands me some free money to tidy it up.
3. I invest said free money and tidy things up
4. I do service planning, make usage projections, allocate operational capacity, train staff, etc.
5. Then I decide what I'm going charge customers
6. I expect business to come flocking to me and new customers to all abandon my competitors who they've been dealing with for years.

Is it just me or would this not be an ideal way to go about doing business if one expected to be profitable and stay in business?
The fares from Sallins inwards are all in the fare determination - the final page has the suburban fares matrix.
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Unread 12-11-2016, 12:50   #20
Jamie2k9
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Did anyone spot any changes from the original draft or was the public consultation simply a wasted exercise ?
Out proposed changes all happened but:

17.25 (Limerick) remains the same (proposed 17.20 dep)
17.20 (Portlaoise) deferred to 17.28 (proposed 17.25 dep)
17.55 (Newbridge) remains the same (proposed to cancel)****
19.15 (ex Newbridge) cancelled (proposed to cancel-note stock from 17.55 operates this

****Note that 17.55 and 17.28 (ex GCD) are working the same path to Newbridge from Park West so either it is cancelled and a journey planner error. Given the 19.15 has been removed I expect it is canceled as the 18.10 is advanced to 18.05 as proposed ex Heuston.

The 17.28 change for the 17.20 is great, anytime I get the 14.50 ex Waterford its always up to 15 minutes late (14 minute turnaround between services) and and passengers don't even give you a chance to get off the train.

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Where has the extra rolling stock come from ? Is it simply stock released by resurrecting the MK4 ?
Probably and likely an expectation that x service will see a drop in numbers and possible a re shuffle.

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Anybody open a book on whether it will happen on November 21st given that Irish Rail have been stalling for months using the "we are reviewing the public consultation" excuse.
I suspect it's not all IE's fault for any delays happening...

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There are almost zero interchange opportunities with Heuston based Intercity services despite the availability of almost unlimited idle capacity at the expansive Kildare route stations.

Given the poor integration with Heuston services and the very limited opportunities to travel to/from stations beyond Hazelhatch the new service will largely depend on business generated by the inner stations between ParkWest and Hazelhatch. Might be a slow build up but time will tell !
Given only a peak service I don't see how they could. IC passengers would be more annoyed if they added stops at peak hours to cater for a few. There is not real need for IC to connect. Speed to/from Heuston needs to be priority.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 12-11-2016 at 12:52.
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