17.30 to Limerick

AthyCommuter · 23-02-2006, 11:47

Has anyone noticed how packed this train is every evening? Last night I got the train 2 minutes before it was due to leave, walked the entire train trying to find a seat, then had trouble trying to find a place in-between the carriages so I could stand for the journey to Kildare.

Any word if there will be any additional carriages on this route? Although I suppose if the train is half empty by the time it departs Kildare, IE probably don't think it's worth it.

Mark Gleeson · 23-02-2006, 12:14

You will have to accept you will have to stand on what are now commuter services, it is infeasible to offer a seat to everyone. If you want to see overcrowding you might want to try the 17:13 Pearse Dundalk, 1200 people in a train 163 meters long

What you need is a extra train leaving at 17:35 calling at all/most stations to Newbridge that would get to Newbridge at 18:10, the bay platform being free since 18:03. This would fix the local demand issue. We have quite detailed plans for the Kildare local service which fit in with IE's plans

The mass sprawl of the Dublin commuter belt means people want to travel long distances which is the complete opposite to how you run an efficient mass transit system, by Kildare you have lost at least 100-150 people

The 17:30 to Limerick is a MK2d set last time I checked even a sizeable MK2d set (8 coaches) will only take 450. The 17:30 should be one of the services going to MK3 operation which would leave you with 457 (7 coaches) or 529 (8 coaches) seats. You can't add more seats as you run out of platform for extra coaches, you need more trains dedicated to local services to pull commuters away from intercity

Thomas J Stamp · 24-02-2006, 16:28

that train only packs up at around 1715 onwards and can be standing at the platform before 1700. If it is possible (yes I know) to get there a bit earlier you should be ok. Yep it is a mk2d.

AthyCommuter · 01-03-2006, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The 17:30 to Limerick is a MK2d set last time I checked even a sizeable MK2d set (8 coaches) will only take 450. The 17:30 should be one of the services going to MK3 operation which would leave you with 457 (7 coaches) or 529 (8 coaches) seats. You can't add more seats as you run out of platform for extra coaches, you need more trains dedicated to local services to pull commuters away from intercity

Am glad to say the 17.30 train last night seemed to be a newer one (excuse my ignorance at what is a MK2d or a MK3d!!) there seemed to be more seats on it, (I got on the train at 17.22) and I didn't see anyone standing when the train left the Heuston!!

AZ1 · 01-03-2006, 12:59

Hi AthyCommuter;
I see you use the 17:30 to Limerick, but apparently commute from Waterford-line Athy. What is your travel plan? Just curious! Thanks!
I know that despite passing through several commuter towns, the Waterford line does not have great commuter services.

AthyCommuter · 07-05-2006, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ1

Hi AthyCommuter;
I see you use the 17:30 to Limerick, but apparently commute from Waterford-line Athy. What is your travel plan? Just curious! Thanks!
I know that despite passing through several commuter towns, the Waterford line does not have great commuter services.

Apologises for the delay in replying to this, I have been 'out of action' and have not been commuting since Feb. due to start again tomorrow

My travel plan 'was' to drive to Kildare (leaving Athy at 7.40am) and get the 8.10 train, arriving in Heuston at 8.50am. On the way home, I'd get the 5.30pm (limerick) train, arriving in Kildare @6.10pm - then drive back to Athy arriving @6.30pm.

To me, this is the easiest option. Before the 7.36am train came to Athy, the 6.40am train was too early and the 9am train was too late. Even with the 7.36am train from Athy in the mornings, I will still get home an hour later, as I have to get the 6.25pm train from Heutson

Here's hoping there was some seats on the 7.36pm train from Athy!!!!

Thomas J Stamp · 08-05-2006, 09:12

Athycommuter, have you been following our Athy..... thread?

AZ1 · 10-05-2006, 11:54

Thanks for that, AthyCommuter. I had imagined you would be a "double commuter", i.e., car to another town (Kildare) and then train to city.
It's great that there's a new a.m. option on the Waterford line; pity it's not balanced out by an evening option at around 5:30.
The 19:45 option, while geat to have, is too late for everyday commuters.
When full clock-face operations become a reality, isn't there meant to be a
2-hourly service on the Waterford line, with Hourly service at peak times?
Maybe then there will also be an appealing evening option for the return journey to Athy.
If only a 2- or 3-car set could be dedicated to work up and down the line ex-Kildare maybe as far as Carlow and/or Kilkenny all day long, taking connections off Kildare Arrows... The good thing about the Waterford line is it doesn't have traffic conflicting with other lines (beyond Cherryville Jctn).

Mark Gleeson · 10-05-2006, 13:06

16:25, 18:25 and 19:45 seems a fair spread for well beyond the 30 mile ring, hourly is on the cards post Kildare route project

The principle problem currently is a severe lack of dedicated services between Heuston and Newbridge Kildare, too many intercity trains have been altered to double as commuter services. There is a serious shortage of rolling stock

James Shields · 10-05-2006, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

There is a serious shortage of rolling stock

That looks likely to continue, at least until expansion of electrification. The IC DMUs should provide a grand intercity service, but I still think there will be a severe shortage of commuter stock for the various planned commuter expansions.

In the short term IE could do with an extra batch of 2900s. The trouble is that there probably would then be a surplus once electrification was complete. Would NIR be interested in some slightly used DMUs?

Peter Turner · 10-05-2006, 15:40

My first post here.

The 17:30 train I have noticed a sharp increase in the overcrowding. The impact on this train will get a lot worse quite quickly in my opinion as Portlaoise for example has some very large developments that will open this year. The one I live in has built over 500 houses and apartments and it is still not fully complete. The same builders are building 250 houses right beside the train station which will no doubt have a high proportion of commuters.

As I live in Portlaoise I don't know if the 5.10 train that terminates at Kildare has any more room on it than the 5.30 limerick train but I wonder if it was extended to Portlaoise would it alleviate the seating problem in any significant way?

A quick trawl through the internet on overcrowding on trains seems to point to longer platforms therefore longer trains and updating the trains to ones with more standing room. That man Darling in the UK wants to charge people more for travelling at peak time like the congestion charge in London.

Some countries (mostly ones on a different gauge than us here are doing the double-decked train carriage to alleviate this overcrowding problem but I bet there would be laden weight issues and height problems here in Ireland not to mention the fact that the money has been spent already.

Does anyone know if double-decked trains are impossible here in Ireland or not?

Colm Donoghue · 10-05-2006, 15:57

Peter,
I've travelled on double decker trains in France and Italy. here should be no issue with the gauge here because it's wider than most places in the world. this means it would be more stable to run a double decker than else where.

The problem would be that most continental platforms are lower than here, so you would have steps down to the bottom level, not flat ways in. you would also have difficulties for mobility impaired passengers.

I don't know if the overbridges on the Cork line are tall enough to allow double deckers, I'd say most of them are though.

Laden weight would not be an issue. cement and zinc ore is a lot heavier than people and packs way closer than is decent too

the main problem is getting enough commuter not IC trains, followed by people accepting that you're not gonna get a seat on commuter routes anywhere in the world at rush hours.

Mark Gleeson · 10-05-2006, 15:59

Welcome Peter

17:10 serves Athlone so it ain't changeable, the 17:18 to Newbridge returns to Dublin to become the 18:45 to Newbridge so it can't be extended

I've had some fun arguments about the service with management, basically they don't have enough coaches to ensure all trains are of the maximum length, some of the Port Laois services are only 5 coaches when they should be 6. Problem really is the mixing of high capacity suburban trains with intercity trains

The 17:30 should get some extra seats in the next few months, 50 or 60 doesn't sound much but its something

Double decker is a little technical provision has been made for it but only for electric trains in Dublin city but its a last resort but we are in a much better position than the UK to actually use them

IE will spin a story of lack of track capacity, its not its lack of physical trains to fill the capacity there is one wide open gap at 17:35 lying idle and why don't all the Fridays only run every day ?

CSL · 10-05-2006, 17:21

So, Mark, tell us where they get the FO stock

Thomas J Stamp · 11-05-2006, 10:52

A lot of the Friday's only stock is made up of the last of the Cravens. Presumably the work rota prevents these being used everyday due to lack of staff.

23-02-2006, 11:47	#1
AthyCommuter New to the board Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Athy Posts: 6	17.30 to Limerick Has anyone noticed how packed this train is every evening? Last night I got the train 2 minutes before it was due to leave, walked the entire train trying to find a seat, then had trouble trying to find a place in-between the carriages so I could stand for the journey to Kildare. Any word if there will be any additional carriages on this route? Although I suppose if the train is half empty by the time it departs Kildare, IE probably don't think it's worth it.

23-02-2006, 12:14	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	You will have to accept you will have to stand on what are now commuter services, it is infeasible to offer a seat to everyone. If you want to see overcrowding you might want to try the 17:13 Pearse Dundalk, 1200 people in a train 163 meters long What you need is a extra train leaving at 17:35 calling at all/most stations to Newbridge that would get to Newbridge at 18:10, the bay platform being free since 18:03. This would fix the local demand issue. We have quite detailed plans for the Kildare local service which fit in with IE's plans The mass sprawl of the Dublin commuter belt means people want to travel long distances which is the complete opposite to how you run an efficient mass transit system, by Kildare you have lost at least 100-150 people The 17:30 to Limerick is a MK2d set last time I checked even a sizeable MK2d set (8 coaches) will only take 450. The 17:30 should be one of the services going to MK3 operation which would leave you with 457 (7 coaches) or 529 (8 coaches) seats. You can't add more seats as you run out of platform for extra coaches, you need more trains dedicated to local services to pull commuters away from intercity Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 23-02-2006 at 12:30.

08-05-2006, 09:12	#7
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Athycommuter, have you been following our Athy..... thread? __________________ We are the passengers

11-05-2006, 10:52	#15
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	A lot of the Friday's only stock is made up of the last of the Cravens. Presumably the work rota prevents these being used everyday due to lack of staff. __________________ We are the passengers

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24-02-2006, 16:28	#3
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	that train only packs up at around 1715 onwards and can be standing at the platform before 1700. If it is possible (yes I know) to get there a bit earlier you should be ok. Yep it is a mk2d.

01-03-2006, 12:59	#5
AZ1 Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 31	Hi AthyCommuter; I see you use the 17:30 to Limerick, but apparently commute from Waterford-line Athy. What is your travel plan? Just curious! Thanks! I know that despite passing through several commuter towns, the Waterford line does not have great commuter services.

10-05-2006, 11:54	#8
AZ1 Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 31	Thanks for that, AthyCommuter. I had imagined you would be a "double commuter", i.e., car to another town (Kildare) and then train to city. It's great that there's a new a.m. option on the Waterford line; pity it's not balanced out by an evening option at around 5:30. The 19:45 option, while geat to have, is too late for everyday commuters. When full clock-face operations become a reality, isn't there meant to be a 2-hourly service on the Waterford line, with Hourly service at peak times? Maybe then there will also be an appealing evening option for the return journey to Athy. If only a 2- or 3-car set could be dedicated to work up and down the line ex-Kildare maybe as far as Carlow and/or Kilkenny all day long, taking connections off Kildare Arrows... The good thing about the Waterford line is it doesn't have traffic conflicting with other lines (beyond Cherryville Jctn).

10-05-2006, 13:06	#9
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	16:25, 18:25 and 19:45 seems a fair spread for well beyond the 30 mile ring, hourly is on the cards post Kildare route project The principle problem currently is a severe lack of dedicated services between Heuston and Newbridge Kildare, too many intercity trains have been altered to double as commuter services. There is a serious shortage of rolling stock

10-05-2006, 15:40	#11
Peter Turner New to the board Join Date: May 2006 Location: Portlaoise Posts: 16	My first post here. The 17:30 train I have noticed a sharp increase in the overcrowding. The impact on this train will get a lot worse quite quickly in my opinion as Portlaoise for example has some very large developments that will open this year. The one I live in has built over 500 houses and apartments and it is still not fully complete. The same builders are building 250 houses right beside the train station which will no doubt have a high proportion of commuters. As I live in Portlaoise I don't know if the 5.10 train that terminates at Kildare has any more room on it than the 5.30 limerick train but I wonder if it was extended to Portlaoise would it alleviate the seating problem in any significant way? A quick trawl through the internet on overcrowding on trains seems to point to longer platforms therefore longer trains and updating the trains to ones with more standing room. That man Darling in the UK wants to charge people more for travelling at peak time like the congestion charge in London. Some countries (mostly ones on a different gauge than us here are doing the double-decked train carriage to alleviate this overcrowding problem but I bet there would be laden weight issues and height problems here in Ireland not to mention the fact that the money has been spent already. Does anyone know if double-decked trains are impossible here in Ireland or not?

10-05-2006, 15:57	#12
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	Peter, I've travelled on double decker trains in France and Italy. here should be no issue with the gauge here because it's wider than most places in the world. this means it would be more stable to run a double decker than else where. The problem would be that most continental platforms are lower than here, so you would have steps down to the bottom level, not flat ways in. you would also have difficulties for mobility impaired passengers. I don't know if the overbridges on the Cork line are tall enough to allow double deckers, I'd say most of them are though. Laden weight would not be an issue. cement and zinc ore is a lot heavier than people and packs way closer than is decent too the main problem is getting enough commuter not IC trains, followed by people accepting that you're not gonna get a seat on commuter routes anywhere in the world at rush hours.

10-05-2006, 15:59	#13
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Welcome Peter 17:10 serves Athlone so it ain't changeable, the 17:18 to Newbridge returns to Dublin to become the 18:45 to Newbridge so it can't be extended I've had some fun arguments about the service with management, basically they don't have enough coaches to ensure all trains are of the maximum length, some of the Port Laois services are only 5 coaches when they should be 6. Problem really is the mixing of high capacity suburban trains with intercity trains The 17:30 should get some extra seats in the next few months, 50 or 60 doesn't sound much but its something Double decker is a little technical provision has been made for it but only for electric trains in Dublin city but its a last resort but we are in a much better position than the UK to actually use them IE will spin a story of lack of track capacity, its not its lack of physical trains to fill the capacity there is one wide open gap at 17:35 lying idle and why don't all the Fridays only run every day ?

10-05-2006, 17:21	#14
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	So, Mark, tell us where they get the FO stock