Athy......

[Thomas J Stamp]

".......is surprisingly close to the M50"

Yep, according to an ad on the radio heard on Monday for a new housing development "in the heart of Athy".

They also throw in the LUAS for some reason.

I. am. not. joking.

And "has a mainline rail connection to the heart of the city"



What next, Thomastown? Surprisingly close to the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, adjacent to The Acropolis.


And, according to IE, within "line of Sight" of Metro North!

[Kevin K Kelehan]

Rail for Virginia to connect with the Department of the Marine Ulster Ships canal

[Mark Gleeson]

To be honest if I was running the show I would withdraw all commuter services travelling more than 50 miles and refuse to increase services to very distant locations beyond the agreed iintercity increases

The fact IE keep adding more and more long distance commuter services just makes things worse, it horribly inefficient and is just encouraging the sprawl and is heavily restricting the service to the core commuter area, in the time it takes to do Thurles Dublin a commuter train can manage Dublin Newbridge Dublin and carry way more people

[James Shields]

Good point Mark. What are the current limits of the commuter network? On the Northern line, Dundalk would be just about within the 50-mile limit (Drogheda is at MP31).

I would guess Longford on the Sligo line would also be about 50 miles.

What seems to have happened on some routes is the existing routes have been extended without any increase in frequency, resulting in greater overcrowding and longer standing times.

On the other hand, IE aren't causing urban sprawl, just doing their best to cope with the situation that has been allowed to arise.

[Mark Gleeson]

Dublin is an interesting spot if you look at how its laid out

Kildare, Wicklow, Navan and Drogheda are all 30 ish miles
Mullingar, Portlaoise, Arklow and Dundalk are 50 miles out

Longford is 76 miles out yet people commute as they do from Athlone

Its a no win scenario but the train service promotes the sale of houses, and you can't do a 29000 crush load routine from Longford but you can from Ballbriggan, put simply you can move 4 times as many on short distance services as 1 long distance service for the same resources

I cant wait till the first complaint comes in from a commuter from Thurles, Deeply buried in the contracts where I work there is a stipulation that you will live not more than 30 miles away, a blind eye is turned to towns on the border line

[AZ1]

Would Athy itself - the title of this thread - make it into "Commuter" category, at 39 miles out?

[Kevin K Kelehan]

I think it would, taking the old long hop commuter zones Carlow was the boundary on this line so it would therefore qualify on its inner proximity to Carlow if Carlow wasn't within the zone Athy would not in its own right justify a service.

[Mark Gleeson]

Killkenny is now classified as a Dublin commuter station!

[Thomas J Stamp]

There already is a commuter train to Thurles. The 1835 service from Heuston to Thurles is classed as Surburban.

Hee hee hee!!

Thurles... surprisingly close to the M50.......

[Mark Gleeson]

Wonder if anyone in Thurles commutes to Cork its 6 miles less !

Really there should be a ban on advertising property beyond the 30 mile belt with respect to people working in Dublin its not sustainable

[Thomas J Stamp]

This is the real chicken and egg situation. Take Templemore for example, and also Ballybrophy (if for no other reason than it'll start up the old debate again).

There is a new sewage system going into operation "soon" in Templemore and there are 200 plus houses in the pipeline. There is similar on the plans for Templetouhy and Rathdowney, a small estate has opened in Errill with another planned. When the intercity DMU's come in what are the odds of these two stations being heavily marketed? This could lead to building of more houses and demand for more services.

This line of thiniking is already being posted about here in relation to Navan.

However, we dont see this kind of thinking regarding motorways, as I suppose part of the capital cost of them are not sought to be recouped by way of a capital contribution by potential house purchasers. Anyway, I would suppose that Navan is a special case in that the demand for a train service originates on the overstretched capacity of the roads and the tolling of the motorways coupled with the sheer good economic/enviromental case for a railway.

I personally think that "Railway Towns" should be given key priority in terms of housing development in the future, in akin to a bastardisation of the RSS, as they clearly have the potential to get large numbers of people in and out of those towns and, lets be realistic here, in and out of Dublin.

Yes, what I am advocating may go against the grain of many people who want less dormer towns but lets face it, dormer towns are the way we're going what we should be doing is restrict the number of them and concentrate them on the railway lines only.

[James Shields]

I personally think that "Railway Towns" should be given key priority in terms of housing development in the future, in akin to a bastardisation of the RSS, as they clearly have the potential to get large numbers of people in and out of those towns and, lets be realistic here, in and out of Dublin.

That's certainly happening on the Northern line. Almost every town along the route has apartments going up around the station, and most have areas set aside fo rhigh-density housing.

[Navan Junction]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Killkenny is now classified as a Dublin commuter station!

It's official... Kilkenny now part of Dublin's commuter belt with travel
times on our trains down to just two hours

Irish Independent, 29.11.05

The country's commuter belt just got officially bigger. Iarnród Éireann is
to run 'commuter' services from Kilkenny to Dublin, it will be announced
today. The 81 mile journey will take 1 hour 50 mins.

The company will announce that the Kilkenny will operate as 'a commuter
station' with regular services starting next March. Transport Minister
Martin Cullen will also announce a range of service improvements across
commuter and Intercity services today.

Commuters on the Maynooth-Dublin line will benefit most as services there
are set to increase significatntly on December 11. Extra capacity will see
peak capacity grow by almost 40pc.

An additional 2,000 commuters daily will be able to use the busy Maynooth
line with three additional morning peak services, and two more during the
evening peak on weekdays. An extra million passengers are expected on the
route.

Serving growing communities such as Maynooth, Leixlip, Clonsilla and
Castleknock, as well as new developments at at Ashtown, the Maynooth
commuter line is one of the fastest growing commuter corridors in the
country.

There will also be additional off-peak services on the route, and additional
services to and from Maynooth in morning and evening peak to facilitate
students and workers at sites such as Intel in Leixlip and Maynooth Business
Park.

Other commuter routes will benefit, and details will be announced of
Kilkenny's arrival as a Greater Dublin rail commuter belt station. Improved
services on Cork's commuter services to Mallowand Cobh will also be
annonced.

The improved services are linked to the arrival of 36 new rail carriages. An
extra 187 carriages are due between now and 2008. Inter-city rail services
between Dublin and Cork will also run every hour from next year.

[Derek Wheeler]

Its a F**king joke lads. Lets face it. As PRO of this circus, Im fast running out of ideas. Unlike Barry Kenny, I actually care, while he just blags it away all day.

Why don't we nominate May 5th as RPA day. At least they are prepared to listen and engage. We can laud all over them for 12 hours and bemoan IE for the inept muppets that they aspire to be.

Kilkenny - Dublin "suburban" service. Wow! What do we actually have to do to get Kildare people to work in Dublin or out of their stifled environs on Sundays by train? Perhaps a delegation of Naas lap dancers should visit IE HQ? Or maybe a team of therapists to heal the dozy twats in Heuston?

Its making me laugh now. Thank god for the internet record. At least we can pass it on to the next generation. I always thought that P11 would really be relevent in the year 2050.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Welcome back Derek!!

[AZ1]

Just because IE instituted a new early morning service on the Waterford line to Heuston just NOT of itself make Kilkenny a "Commuter" town/city. IE may use this terminology it in Press Release for commercial reasons, but that's where it ends. Kilkenny is no more a commuter town than are Longford, Thurles or Athlone, other towns served by "Commuter" trains.
To my way of thinking, a "Dublin Commuter town" is a place where a person thinks nothing of hopping on a train once or even TWICE a day to go into "town" to work, study or play, and has a range of rail options available to him/her ALL during the day whereby the link with Dublin is actually nurtured and sustained.
Is it now possible for Kilkenny folks to go see a movie in Dublin, have a drink, eat something and the catch a train home at around 22:30. I think not. This IS an option for Kildare/Bray people, for instance. That's one of the reasons why they can truly consider themselves part of the Greater Dublin area. It's not just about going to work in the morning.
One early morning or evening rail service does not a commuter town make.
Even if your send not 1, but 5, trains per day to a distant destination like Sligo, you still don't make it a Commuter town.

[Thomas J Stamp]

It's all down to advertising.

What you have described is what the Estate Agents call "surburban living" and all of what you have said is taken for granted.

With "Commuter towns" it is taken for granted that those sort of social activities will take place within the commuter town (which is why they advertise all of the lcoal amenities) and you will commute to the city for work and come back in the evening. That's the whole thrust of the ad that I based this thread on.

It is all chicken and egg stuff. Once a town is marketed as a commuter town and commuters start living there (handy definition: if you can leave your commuter town after 6.30am and get as far as the M50 before 8.00 - 8.30 you're in a commuter town) and there is a rail service they will start demanding that it's "upgraded" to commuter status. IE will do so by introducing commuter railcars or may introdue an extra loco hauled service. When this is in place more people will be attracted to the town by the virtue of the "improved" transport links.

Where I am you can see a dozen people getting onto the 6.50 train in Templemore every day, a dozen more in Ballybrophy, dont know how many more get on in Thurles. More get onto the next train which calls at about 7.40. The first train gets to Heuston for 8.30 ish. That's a commuter service and its happening all over the network.

What is happening is that builders, developers and all are looking at what is at most an hour and a half drive/train journey from Dublin (M50). With new trains and motorways that hour and a half is getting further and further west.

Just as a final point, how many people here know of someone who moved to Rochfordbridge? Ask them why, and how long they stuck it.

We need to concentrate development along the exisitng rail network, and that includes Athy, Kilkenny, Thurles and the like.

[Mark Gleeson]

Don't know who retitled Killkenny as a suburban station

Problem is the viscous circle

Small sleepy village 50 miles from Dublin, someone gets pp for 20 houses and flogs them to young couples from Dublin desparate for a roof, everyone else has the same idea and you get heaps of houses

Then the complaints come in that the long standing early morning train is not longer good enough, local politicos eager to get the votes of all the newcomers mouth off about it, IE claim its not there problem, someone gets to the minister and IE agree to do something.

Local landowners and auctioneers hear this, € signs start flashing and a new round of building takes place on the basis that the promise of a improved rail services will drag more Dubliners in lured by somewhat affordable property

Next thing we get complaints I live in X I commute to Dublin but the last train home is at 7pm, rant rant can't have a drink/go out etc well tough

Someone somewhere has to stop this madness

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Someone somewhere has to stop this madness

Having a decent Minister for Transport would be a good start. We seem doomed to get the worst of the pack lately.

[Kevin K Kelehan]

I wouldn't doubt Cullen's ability per se he is far from stupid but his motivation is definitely not pro rail except when it comes to delivering localised PR stunts such as rail for Kilkenny as a commuter service.