Navan Rail link - Phase 2

dowlingm · 19-06-2012, 20:19

I think if there was money to build Phase 2 there would be money to refit the 27s...

I will never understand that fiasco to my dying day - a Meath minister slowpedalling a Meath railway line, a county council who seemed to be bent on sabotaging it and so on and so on...

Thomas J Stamp · 20-06-2012, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm

I think if there was money to build Phase 2 there would be money to refit the 27s...

I will never understand that fiasco to my dying day - a Meath minister slowpedalling a Meath railway line, a county council who seemed to be bent on sabotaging it and so on and so on...

if irish rail was a private company with big pockets it could lobby government in much the same way as the roads lobby could. As a branch of government it could not.

fiskar · 20-06-2012, 19:13

Rail infrastructure such as this will the life blood of the economy going forward. You can see that in any city abroad that you visit.
The gas thing is that most motorists going to Dublin from Navan every day use the old untolled N3 to avoid the tolls and the government is using the mobile speed detecting van to try and nab them every 2nd week on the stretch into Dunshaughlin and frighten them onto the M3. That infrastructure is a pure white elephant. The rail link won't be, not the way fuel costs and congestion are going.
It might be there for my retirement in 20 years!

Mark Gleeson · 20-06-2012, 19:23

We have seen the full draft railway works order

The price was over 450 million and the financial case did not stack up, given it was based on assumptions of continuing growth of population in Navan the financial case today is even worse.

This is what happens when a local politician stirs things up and gives false hope

If the speed camera trap is catching people thats their own fault for speeding, its not justification for a railway.

The existence of the M3 was the end to any real prospect for the railway, the toll operator having a contract which guarantees there income, combine that with some suspect dealings of a sewer main and Meath CC, every day more and more costly obstacles appeared

karlr42 · 20-06-2012, 22:05

It's a shame, because it leaves the existing M3 Parkway spur horribly underused and looking more a white elephant every day.

fiskar · 21-06-2012, 20:07

Thanks Mark, agree that every day it get harder to look at the line becoming reality unless the railway order to get the land goes through. I still want it though

Totally agree Karl, the M3 parkway is very under utilised. Technically I would use this in winter but the gate fee is ridulous, just adds too much to the weekly commute cost.

Mark Gleeson · 21-06-2012, 20:35

The original plan was for M3 parkway to actually be West of Dunshaughlin, on the north side of the Blackbull toll, this was fully investigated but beyond a generic cost excuse no serious investigation was ever undertaken

The plan made a huge amount of sense and the motorist availing of the train did not have to pay the toll

You can draw your own conclusions as to how the station found itself on the other side of the toll.

Traincustomer · 21-06-2012, 21:21

The following article in the Meath Chronicle a few weeks ago about a proposed bus hub is sadly the sum total of what is planned for Navan (wish it were otherwise):
http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/ro...loted-in-navan

The necessity for a hub is certainly not questionable as the numerous bus routes serving Navan are scattered between no less than four separate main bus stops in and adjacent to the central area (Market Square, Mercy Convent, Shopping Centre and Abbeylands South opp Fire Stn.).The bus hub proposal seems to seek an utopian location which has the dual attributes of being near the town centre and having no traffic issues. Like most provincial towns Navan suffers from traffic congestion and finding a place with both attributes will be next to impossible.

The eminently sensible and very cost effective idea of using the large yard at Navan railway station has evidently been dismissed. This yard has more area than many existing Bus Éireann stations, has quite a good surface and a waiting facility could easily be developed in part of the station building. Incidentally IÉ use some rooms in the station for offices.

This really could be done for very low money - and a quality, user-friendly result at the end...

Therefore the necessity for seeking (very expensive) land on which to build this hub is very questionable indeed. I thought the country was supposed to be using money prudently but this comes across as a quite disgraceful waste of money when the town already has such an asset already in CIÉ ownership. The railway station is also within acceptable walking distance of Trimgate Street (traditional main shopping street) and the Navan Shopping Centre. It is also beside Meath County Council's offices.

Back to rail - a personal opinion is that Kilmessan station should not feature in the Navan rail plan and a spur to Trim just five miles away should instead feature.

20-06-2012, 19:23	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	We have seen the full draft railway works order The price was over 450 million and the financial case did not stack up, given it was based on assumptions of continuing growth of population in Navan the financial case today is even worse. This is what happens when a local politician stirs things up and gives false hope If the speed camera trap is catching people thats their own fault for speeding, its not justification for a railway. The existence of the M3 was the end to any real prospect for the railway, the toll operator having a contract which guarantees there income, combine that with some suspect dealings of a sewer main and Meath CC, every day more and more costly obstacles appeared __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

21-06-2012, 20:35	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The original plan was for M3 parkway to actually be West of Dunshaughlin, on the north side of the Blackbull toll, this was fully investigated but beyond a generic cost excuse no serious investigation was ever undertaken The plan made a huge amount of sense and the motorist availing of the train did not have to pay the toll You can draw your own conclusions as to how the station found itself on the other side of the toll. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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19-06-2012, 20:19	#1
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	I think if there was money to build Phase 2 there would be money to refit the 27s... I will never understand that fiasco to my dying day - a Meath minister slowpedalling a Meath railway line, a county council who seemed to be bent on sabotaging it and so on and so on...

20-06-2012, 19:13	#3
fiskar New to the board Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8	Rail infrastructure such as this will the life blood of the economy going forward. You can see that in any city abroad that you visit. The gas thing is that most motorists going to Dublin from Navan every day use the old untolled N3 to avoid the tolls and the government is using the mobile speed detecting van to try and nab them every 2nd week on the stretch into Dunshaughlin and frighten them onto the M3. That infrastructure is a pure white elephant. The rail link won't be, not the way fuel costs and congestion are going. It might be there for my retirement in 20 years!

20-06-2012, 22:05	#5
karlr42 Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 340	It's a shame, because it leaves the existing M3 Parkway spur horribly underused and looking more a white elephant every day.

21-06-2012, 20:07	#6
fiskar New to the board Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 8	Thanks Mark, agree that every day it get harder to look at the line becoming reality unless the railway order to get the land goes through. I still want it though Totally agree Karl, the M3 parkway is very under utilised. Technically I would use this in winter but the gate fee is ridulous, just adds too much to the weekly commute cost.

21-06-2012, 21:21	#8
Traincustomer Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ar an traein Posts: 600	The following article in the Meath Chronicle a few weeks ago about a proposed bus hub is sadly the sum total of what is planned for Navan (wish it were otherwise): http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/ro...loted-in-navan The necessity for a hub is certainly not questionable as the numerous bus routes serving Navan are scattered between no less than four separate main bus stops in and adjacent to the central area (Market Square, Mercy Convent, Shopping Centre and Abbeylands South opp Fire Stn.).The bus hub proposal seems to seek an utopian location which has the dual attributes of being near the town centre and having no traffic issues. Like most provincial towns Navan suffers from traffic congestion and finding a place with both attributes will be next to impossible. The eminently sensible and very cost effective idea of using the large yard at Navan railway station has evidently been dismissed. This yard has more area than many existing Bus Éireann stations, has quite a good surface and a waiting facility could easily be developed in part of the station building. Incidentally IÉ use some rooms in the station for offices. This really could be done for very low money - and a quality, user-friendly result at the end... Therefore the necessity for seeking (very expensive) land on which to build this hub is very questionable indeed. I thought the country was supposed to be using money prudently but this comes across as a quite disgraceful waste of money when the town already has such an asset already in CIÉ ownership. The railway station is also within acceptable walking distance of Trimgate Street (traditional main shopping street) and the Navan Shopping Centre. It is also beside Meath County Council's offices. Back to rail - a personal opinion is that Kilmessan station should not feature in the Navan rail plan and a spur to Trim just five miles away should instead feature.