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Unread 16-06-2018, 09:36   #1
ThomasJ
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Default What the hell happened in malahide last night?

I can't get over reports on twitter that there were DARTs running at a snails pace this morning alongside people walking the tracks. Doors being cut open and people getting home to Dundalk at 4am this morning.

This is the second time in so many weeks that the operation at malahide was an unmitigated disaster after these shows at the castle (although you cant blame Irish rail on the circumstances of the 1st time)

What happened ?

Last edited by ThomasJ : 16-06-2018 at 12:18.
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Unread 16-06-2018, 15:32   #2
Inniskeen
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First occasion was a fatality at Malahide.

Not sure about last night, it appears the 2315 special from Malahide to Connolly (an 8 car 29k stopping at all stations) had door problems at Portmarnock. A second train (a DART) left Malahide and was stranded in the section. The situation escalated as frustrated passengers in the reportedly heavily overcrowded trains disembarked onto the track.

The last Dundalk service was held at Clongriffin until around 0100 as was a special to Belfast. Services in both directions were stopped for between 90 and 120 minutes.

There were further delays at Donabate due to a medical issue on the Dundalk train. In typical Irish Rail fashion the Belfast train was held to follow the Dundalk local and apparently didn't reach Belfast until 0400.

A special DMU apparently ran from Connolly to Bray for passengers who missed the last southbound DART.
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Unread 16-06-2018, 22:49   #3
Dublin13
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So clearly nothing was learnt from the management of the recent DART derailment.

No communication = panic = people doing stupid things.

No doubt Irish rail will forget the first two parts of that equation.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 08:12   #4
Mark Gleeson
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This could have been a huge loss of life

The 2355 Dublin Belfast special would have been close to 90mph in that section

You should never ever get out onto the tracks, but here is classic Irish Rail

1. For the type of crowd at the concert there were likely to cause some trouble. No security on the train
2. Irish Rail do not enforce the law, its an offence to be on the railway while intoxicated
3. Communication was a total mess, i.e. none


Then you have the Taylor Swift concerts... Again no security massive overcrowding


Fairly simple to isolate a door on a 29k, worst case you lock the coach out, taking the entire train out of service is a bit of an over reaction, however there are unconfirmed reports of other damage

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 17-06-2018 at 08:46.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 10:37   #5
Dublin13
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Typical Irish Rail though isn't it.

They will blame the passengers for getting out because they will not take any responsibility for the events that led to that, far easier to let the same things happen over and over again and point the finger to someone else to take the full blame than actually do something that might make it less likely to happen in the future. Blame culture at it's best.

Nothing changes, the next time a similar incident happens we'll see the very same problem because nobody is interested in preventing it happening, since why focus on reassuring people and taking steps to make something like this less likely to happen when you can just keep blaming someone else instead. I mean, it's only people we're talking about.

I agree that I personally wouldn't get out on a live track after the train had broken down, but the longer you are there with no communications the more anxious some people are going to get and panic is going to set in with some. That's why reassurance and information is critical. Irish Rail don't care about that though since nothing is ever their fault.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 10:37   #6
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Quote:
Fairly simple to isolate a door on a 29k, worst case you lock the coach out, taking the entire train out of service is a bit of an over reaction, however there are unconfirmed reports of other damage
Don't really buy the door issues, as you say the obvious solution and done time and time again. Max 15 minute delay.

What I have seen do the rounds and more believable is a fight or some sort broke out on the 2900 and of course guards took there time to arrive hence the delay and all the disruption.

Now transport police would have solved the problem.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 10:43   #7
Dublin13
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Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
Don't really buy the door issues, as you say the obvious solution and done time and time again. Max 15 minute delay.

What I have seen do the rounds and more believable is a fight or some sort broke out on the 2900 and of course guards took there time to arrive hence the delay and all the disruption.

Now transport police would have solved the problem.
Still doesn't excuse the lack of communication. The culture in Irish Rail towards passengers has always been appalling however so it doesn't really surprise me, they just simply don't care about people very much.

Good communication certainly will reduce the chances of people starting to panic and therefore they may not detrain in the way that they did. But I guess as usual there will be a smokescreen of the people are idiots for doing so as Irish Rail don't want to look at what they can do better.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 10:46   #8
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Originally Posted by Dublin13 View Post
Still doesn't excuse the lack of communication. The culture in Irish Rail towards passengers has always been appalling however so it doesn't really surprise me, they just simply don't care about people very much.

Good communication certainly will reduce the chances of people starting to panic and therefore they may not detrain in the way that they did. But I guess as usual there will be a smokescreen of the people are idiots for doing so as Irish Rail don't want to look at what they can do better.
I agree about the communication, I don't think it would have stopped the incident where people walked the line. It may have delayed it but the reality here is guards are not classifying Irish Rail incidents as priority when they are particularly when trains are extremely busy.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 12:58   #9
Dublin13
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Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but the issue here is Irish rail didn't even bother to try and reassure people which is unforgivable for a public service.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 13:34   #10
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https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0617/971144-rail-attacks/

Quote:
Iarnród Éireann is no longer safe for passengers or staff as a result of growing violence and anti-social behaviour, according to the head of the National Bus and Rail Union.

NBRU general secretary Dermot O'Leary was responding to revelations on RTÉ's This Week, that anti-social behaviour had jumped by 43% in a two-year period.

The union has called on Minister for Transport Shane Ross to establish a dedicated Transport Police, similar to the UK.

Figures show that there were more than 1,000 separate incidents of anti-social behaviour recorded by Iarnród Éireann since the start of 2017.

In 2016, there were 492 recorded incidents of anti-social misconduct on rail lines; but by 2017 this had surged to more than 700 incidents.

The figures show that the number of incidents has risen even further in the first five months of this year - with a rise of 25% when compared to the same period in 2016.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 13:35   #11
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Originally Posted by Dublin13 View Post
Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but the issue here is Irish rail didn't even bother to try and reassure people which is unforgivable for a public service.
I agree fully about the communication.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 14:32   #12
Mark Gleeson
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Transport police wouldn't be much use on a train between 2 stations

While we would like a Transport police, the NBRU needs to realise that its members are part of the problem by failing to communicate to the passengers and ignoring bye law breaches which then escalate into a problem later
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Unread 17-06-2018, 14:59   #13
Dublin13
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Why would the NBRU allow their members to take the blame when they can blame someone else. In all my experience with Irish Rail nothing is EVER their fault and there is NEVER anything they could have done different.

Really what the NTA needs to do is that they need to start implementing requirements of communications in the Irish Rail contract and if they do not comply then fine them. If the culture does not change then Irish Rail should be broken up.

Irish Rail are more likely to try and prosecute people for trespassing on that night than actually bother to do anything about the events that led to it.

Too many people accept mediocrity in Ireland.

Last edited by Dublin13 : 17-06-2018 at 15:02.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 15:09   #14
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Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Transport police wouldn't be much use on a train between 2 stations

While we would like a Transport police, the NBRU needs to realise that its members are part of the problem by failing to communicate to the passengers and ignoring bye law breaches which then escalate into a problem later
No but if the incident ahead was dealt with swiftly there would not have been a major delay between 2 stations. Anytime there is anti social behavior on a train typical delays is 40-60 minutes at least.

IE and staff could and should be doing better if they reported every law break you would have a situation of daily delays of 1-2 hours across the network and something I don't think the public or yourself would be impressed by.

Quote:
Why would the NBRU allow their members to take the blame when they can blame someone else. In all my experience with Irish Rail nothing is EVER their fault and there is NEVER anything they could have done different.

Really what the NTA needs to do is that they need to start implementing requirements of communications in the Irish Rail contract and if they do not comply then fine them. If the culture does not change then Irish Rail should be broken up.

Irish Rail are more likely to try and prosecute people for trespassing on that night than actually bother to do anything about the events that led to it.

Too many people accept mediocrity in Ireland.
NTA won't fine because it will be them paying themselves. They turn a blind eye to rules when it comes to IE. If IE were profitable it would work much better.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 17-06-2018 at 15:13.
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Unread 17-06-2018, 18:49   #15
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There was no problem with communication last night.

It is outrageous that the likes of Mark Gleeson aka Devnull from Boards posts such unfounded rumours against the hard working people in Irish Rail.

The problems were caused by morons on the train and not poor communication for Irish Rail. I was on the train and four announcements were made and I will be happy to testify this along with other people in any enquiry.

I hope this puts your mind at rest and maybe you should stop posting wild specultion because you have a grudge against Irish Rail. It's pretty sad and depserate you know.
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Unread 19-06-2018, 10:11   #16
Thomas J Stamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
There was no problem with communication last night.

It is outrageous that the likes of Mark Gleeson aka Devnull from Boards posts such unfounded rumours against the hard working people in Irish Rail.

The problems were caused by morons on the train and not poor communication for Irish Rail. I was on the train and four announcements were made and I will be happy to testify this along with other people in any enquiry.

I hope this puts your mind at rest and maybe you should stop posting wild specultion because you have a grudge against Irish Rail. It's pretty sad and depserate you know.

ironic in a post about unfounded rumours.


i guess since your other account was caught in moderation you tried again here?



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Unread 19-06-2018, 10:48   #17
Mark Gleeson
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The Rail Accident Investigation Unit has opened a preliminary investigation into the events of Friday and Saturday. As a result the CCTV, OTMR and CTC tapes will likely be secured for inspection.

Given I was witness to one incident it will be interesting to be interviewed if it comes to it.
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Unread 19-06-2018, 18:05   #18
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Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp View Post
ironic in a post about unfounded rumours.

i guess since your other account was caught in moderation you tried again here?

g'day
It is not speculation, it is pure facts.

Well known in NBRU circles.
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Unread 19-06-2018, 18:05   #19
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Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
The Rail Accident Investigation Unit has opened a preliminary investigation into the events of Friday and Saturday. As a result the CCTV, OTMR and CTC tapes will likely be secured for inspection.

Given I was witness to one incident it will be interesting to be interviewed if it comes to it.
And you will see that announcements were made and that you are a bunch of liars?
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Unread 20-06-2018, 10:56   #20
Thomas J Stamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
It is not speculation, it is pure facts.

Well known in NBRU circles.

oh no, not NBRU circles!!


you may have your wires crossed. one of the committee used to be a mod on the Commuting and Transport Forum (and the sub forums) on Boards.ie but he hasnt been a mod there for years now, and it wasn't Mark Gleeson.


if you do your research on those Boards you will find that a lot of the posters there do not like us and if Mark was this person such posts would not be allowed.


Then again, here you are calling both Mark and myself liars and thinking you are hiding behind a veil of secrecy whilst doing it. Unlike Boards.ie we are well able to repond to critics like you who belive you can just chuck around any old story in a bad attampt at deflection.



I think thats enough truth for all of us.
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