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Unread 08-06-2016, 21:15   #21
Jamie2k9
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While it's slightly longer than I would of expected you have to considered the sheer difference in progress at both junctions. Keeping buses running through Abby St junction is really impacting on progress and holding it up.

They are also doing all the electrification works and likely a few days for commissioning the new signal layout.
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Unread 09-06-2016, 08:07   #22
Inniskeen
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Originally Posted by berneyarms View Post
Really?

The main tram lines through the city centre in nearby Munich are closed from mid-May until mid-September due to major civil works.

That's four months!

I do love how people in this country seem to immediately be experts in civil engineering and can tell exactly how long they should take.
I am not a civil engineer and even if I was, I do not have sufficient information to determine whether or not a two month closure is justified.

It is obvious that good progress is being made with the modified trackwork now substantially in place. Signalling and overhead changes are very modest and hardly likely to add significantly to the closure given the uncomplicated nature of these systems on a tramway - the only urgent change would be to ensure that the facing points approaching the Abbey Street stop are detected.

One thing that has been very noticeable in recent years on the big railway is that works which would traditionally have been considered minor and not meriting a line closure are now considered to be major and justification for extended line closures.

The renewal of the Tolka Bridge at East Wall a few years ago resulted in more line closures and disruption than did the original DART construction. On one occasion the line north of Connolly, was closed for an entire weekend to remove a turnout into Fairview depot thus gratuitously disrupting tens of thousands of passengers for the most trivial piece of work.

Many works now appear to be planned with extensive padding to ensure that it is almost impossible to over-run even if this means that the line remain closed long after the job has finished and everybody has gone home !
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Unread 09-06-2016, 16:09   #23
James Howard
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To be fair, this is not just limited to rail infrastructure. The OPW have had a 1 km stretch of the quay walls in Dublin cordoned off for nearly two years so that they can build a one metre high flood barrier. You frequently see road-closures on major roads stretching for weeks or months while they replace sections of bridges.

Modern project planning in Ireland does not appear to have minimisation of public disruption high on the list of priorities for design criteria. Like everything in engineering (civil or otherwise), minimising disruption has a cost and can usually be achieved if the customer demands it. This cost does not seem to be something that the NTA or whatever other public body is willing to bear so instead the passenger ends up paying for it in delays.
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Unread 24-06-2016, 17:28   #24
Colm Moore
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Údarás Náisiúnta Iompair, National Transport Authority

Luas Red Line services between Jervis and the Point to resume ahead of schedule (on July 3)
24th June 2016

The Luas Cross City works are progressing well and as a result traffic movements and tram services east of Jervis are being restored ahead of schedule.
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Unread 25-06-2016, 07:41   #25
Inniskeen
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Works already substantially completed at Abbey Street/O'Connell Street and Abbey Street/ Marlborough Street.
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Unread 28-06-2016, 03:10   #26
dowlingm
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Here in Toronto the tramway used to be laid in a very basic fashion but it got hammered by use especially by the post-PCC trams. Now the concrete is laid in layers and rubber pads used for vibration reduction. Slower to do but lasts longer.

https://youtu.be/kPJuU8CaKAc
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Unread 28-06-2016, 08:16   #27
Inniskeen
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Re-opens July 3rd.
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Unread 28-06-2016, 11:52   #28
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I think the RPA and contractors can be congratulations for getting the job done reasonably quickly and the line reopened early. I still think they could have managed the replacement bus service better, and I suspect most people found it easier to just walk during the closure, but things did run reasonably smoothly apart from that.

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Unread 28-06-2016, 15:25   #29
Mickey H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Shields View Post
I think the RPA and contractors can be congratulations for getting the job done reasonably quickly and the line reopened early.

James
Am I the only person who thinks they massively inflated the time needed in public information to make themselves look good with " an early finish" ?
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Unread 29-06-2016, 14:19   #30
James Shields
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey H View Post
Am I the only person who thinks they massively inflated the time needed in public information to make themselves look good with " an early finish" ?
I get sick of complaints about inflated project schedules when a project completes ahead of schedule. Every project needs a contingency period in case anything unpredictable happens, such as unearthing the grave of a 1916 general under O'Connell St. I suspect there was a "everything goes smoothly" plan, that reopened start of July, a "slight problems but nothing too serious" plan that runs to end of August, and a "dire straits" plan that ran to end of August. It makes sense to pick the middle plan for your published closure dates, and have (most) people happy when you finish early. If you publish the most optimistic timetable, then any slight problems and people are upset by the delay on top of the original disruption. If you have to run into the dire straits plan, hopefully you have enough evidence to back up your "we couldn't have predicted that" story.

Basically, it would be irresponsible not to allow some reasonable contingency in the project schedule.

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Unread 29-06-2016, 16:52   #31
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Shields View Post
I get sick of complaints about inflated project schedules when a project completes ahead of schedule. Every project needs a contingency period in case anything unpredictable happens, such as unearthing the grave of a 1916 general under O'Connell St. I suspect there was a "everything goes smoothly" plan, that reopened start of July, a "slight problems but nothing too serious" plan that runs to end of August, and a "dire straits" plan that ran to end of August. It makes sense to pick the middle plan for your published closure dates, and have (most) people happy when you finish early. If you publish the most optimistic timetable, then any slight problems and people are upset by the delay on top of the original disruption. If you have to run into the dire straits plan, hopefully you have enough evidence to back up your "we couldn't have predicted that" story.

Basically, it would be irresponsible not to allow some reasonable contingency in the project schedule.

James
Completely agree with this.

The lesson from Harcourt St has been learnt - works over-ran significantly there due to the plans of the utility layout bearing no resemblance to reality.

Far better to build in extra time lest anything similar happens again.
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Unread 29-06-2016, 20:26   #32
Inniskeen
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I have a degree of sympathy with both viewpoints, it is reasonable and proper to have contingency. I stress I don't know in sufficient detail what was involved in the LUAS works and would not therefore be competent to judge the degree of padding in the time announced as being required to complete the task.

I do know of other infrastructure works where operator convenience has trumped the legitimate needs of the public and where grossly excessive time has been allowed for very minor works.

Last edited by Inniskeen : 29-06-2016 at 20:30.
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