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Unread 10-03-2018, 19:08   #1
Ireland trains
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Default Irish rail fleet deployment

Irish rail could use the 1 spare mkiv set and reconfigure the enterprise sets to 4 7-car trains and increase the enterprise service to hourly
Does anyone know what services to Waterford and Galway from Dublin are 5/6/7 car ICR sets.
Have Irish rail ever operated an 8 or 9 car ICR in passenger service.
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Unread 12-03-2018, 19:26   #2
Mark Gleeson
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Mk4 are for Dublin Cork only, not certified or equipped for use in Northern Ireland, hourly service would need 6 sets at least for Dublin Belfast plus spare, so 3 on top of current, funding is shared with NIR so it is complex to get any improvement as both parties have to share 50:50

Dublin Cork requires all 7 sets + 1 spare to run the timetable, 6 are used currently, the 7th set will have to go into regular use to replace a ICR's to free them up for other routes

9 coach ICR is permitted and has been used many times, 8 coach sets are regularly used Dublin Cork but are good for most routes. Dublin Sligo has a limit of 7, Waterford has a limit of 6, Rosslare 5 (but is typical only 4 timetabled)
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Unread 14-03-2018, 13:38   #3
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When have irish rail used 9 and 8 car icrs in passenger service.
Also Belfast only would need 5 trains to make it hourly ( 2h 10min journey time and 20 min turnaround)
Cork only needs 6 and I thought all mkiv trains were back in service
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Unread 14-03-2018, 19:57   #4
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20 minutes isn't sufficient, need at least 40. And you need a spare set, so you need 7.

Cork needs 7 + 1 spare which is the MK4 fleet, its currently running as 5 or 6 plus some ICR's

9 car is used for GAA specials regularly. Dublin Cork line only
8 car sets are used on Saturdays during the engineering works between Heuston and Portlaoise, again somewhat restricted in routes they can operate
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Unread 15-03-2018, 12:15   #5
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Belfast hourly could easily be run with 5 sets (+1 spare) especially if the current idiotic time wasting schedules were tightened up. There is often sufficient time in Drogheda or Dundalk on northbound trips to nip out to the local shops while the train idles away at the platform.

Mk4s would be little addition to the Belfast line although cerifying them to run in NI would not be a big obstacle, they are not massively different operationally to a De-Dietrich but would require upgrades to on board signalling equipment, notably TPWS and the rather less useful DRA.

As for 9 piece ICRs in passenger service, this is a comparitiv rarity, perhaps less than half a dozen times a year. Eight piece ICRs in passenger service are also relatively rare but do appear during weekend engineering works on the Cork line when service frequency is reduced to two-hourly. No regular workings to my knowledge. Seven car sets are common enough particularly on commuter oriented services notably from Sligo, Newry and Maynooth, perhaps less so on the Heuston lines where 3 or 4 car sets appear to pre-dominate.
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Unread 15-03-2018, 14:45   #6
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I've seen the Enterprise turned around in as little as 10 minutes in Connolly, but I presume that's under exceptional circumstances. It's one thing to do quick turnarounds on an occasional basis, but if they have to turn around that quick all day every day, there isn't time for the routine checks and servicing, not to mention cleaning. Things will inevitably start to break down, and the quality of service will degrade.

Aside from that, having the service split between two different train types causes a lot of complexity for maintenance, servicing and training, and also makes online seat booking difficult (what happens if a Mk4 is scheduled to run a service and it gets swapped for a DD at the last minute, and the seat number you've reserved doesn't exist on the replacement train?).

I hope we'll see an hourly Enterprise service one day, but it will probably need to coincide with the replacement of the DDs by new stock.
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Unread 15-03-2018, 19:24   #7
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I could be wrong but I thought that 7 car ICR trains operated to Waterford
Has a 5car ICR ever been used to rosslare.
Do you think Irish rail will be running any 8 car trains during the Easter works and is it possible in the future irish rail might have regular 8 car ICR trains when/if the bi mode trains come which will release a few icr sets and if passenger numbers keep increasing
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Unread 15-03-2018, 23:45   #8
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Waterford, Westport & Galway would all 7 x ICR formations regularly, perhaps on a daily basis.

I am only aware of a 5 car ICR operating to Rosslare on one occasion, it is very rare.

As for 8 car ICRs operating to Cork over Easter, i don't know, possibly, although the line closure will reduce traffic considerably.. The use of 8 car ICRs is restricted somewhat by platform lengths which by and large are not long enough on most routes.
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Unread 16-03-2018, 12:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland trains View Post
I could be wrong but I thought that 7 car ICR trains operated to Waterford
Has a 5car ICR ever been used to rosslare.
Do you think Irish rail will be running any 8 car trains during the Easter works and is it possible in the future irish rail might have regular 8 car ICR trains when/if the bi mode trains come which will release a few icr sets and if passenger numbers keep increasing
They are allowed but cannot call at Kilkenny. Since the formations one schedule passenger service (07.10) was operated by a 7 car and that was due a unscheduled 4 car forming another service.

7 car formations are not that common, on Heuston side its mainly 3 services to Galway/Westport (split on return) daily and more operational than capacity based formations. 1 per day to Sligo and on Fridays Westport/Sligo have extra.
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Unread 16-03-2018, 16:07   #10
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Don't Galway have 7 car ICR trains also and so does cork (21:00 from Heuston)
It would be kind of interesting to see some more 8 car ICR trains but in 5+3 formation.
Possible for galway in the future maybe
If irish rail use the spare mkiv set on the one service to Tralee then they can create on new service or create additional capacity.
If Irish rail just used 6 mkiv trains to cork then the other one could operate one service to limerick freeing up another icr
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Unread 16-03-2018, 16:42   #11
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In other countries, trains can lock out front or rear doors at stations with short platforms. It's a shame the ICRs don't have such a facility.
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Unread 17-03-2018, 10:06   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland trains View Post
Don't Galway have 7 car ICR trains also and so does cork (21:00 from Heuston)
It would be kind of interesting to see some more 8 car ICR trains but in 5+3 formation.
Possible for galway in the future maybe
If irish rail use the spare mkiv set on the one service to Tralee then they can create on new service or create additional capacity.
If Irish rail just used 6 mkiv trains to cork then the other one could operate one service to limerick freeing up another icr
Yes 2100 Cork is a multi-unit ICR, and splits to form the 0550 & 0615 Cork to Heuston. It may well be a 7 car formation although traffic on any of these services would rarely stretch a 3 car formation.

While Mk4s are passed for the Tralee line, the full sized formation only fits the platforms at Tralee and Killarney.
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Unread 21-03-2018, 20:35   #13
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7 car ICR trains are not that rare but are mainly used at peak times and would it be worth the money for irish rail to install selective door opening in their intercity fleet.
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Unread 21-03-2018, 21:24   #14
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SDO would only be of value on the Rosslare line, Rathdrum in particular, all other routes can cope with 7 coaches which is the longest realistic set length likely to be seen.

Rosslare can take 5, but is worked as 4 so there is scope to expand capacity.

The CRR's opinion of selective door opening would be interesting as they have a zero tolerance policy, train must fit the platform.
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Unread 21-03-2018, 23:23   #15
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The CRR's opinion of selective door opening would be interesting as they have a zero tolerance policy, train must fit the platform.
How can they be against something when all their peers are allowing it to happen across Europe. Its not a radical concept.

Did IE not tender before for SDO on the ICRs and there was no takers or were they just considering it?
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Unread 22-03-2018, 09:42   #16
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SDO is really a UK invention and a legacy practice which got in and is still there, not aware of it used anywhere in Europe, where the policy is passengers responsibility to check before exiting (platforms in deep Eastern Europe is just that a concept at most stations)

CRR would view SDO as introducing a new risk not before present.

Simple question is, do we need it? 7 coaches works everywhere except Rosslare where the demand doesn't justify it
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Unread 22-03-2018, 10:31   #17
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I don't they really need it but it would be good for IE to have the option of using it (if fitted) to the fleet.
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Unread 27-03-2018, 14:18   #18
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Are irish rail actually using all their fleet at peak time and is there any chance of the 2700 class trains actually coming back into service next year
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Unread 30-03-2018, 16:13   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
SDO is really a UK invention and a legacy practice which got in and is still there, not aware of it used anywhere in Europe
Some SDO is operated in Switzerland
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