Digital Board (Passenger Information Displays)

[joey]

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=73

why has the digital boards in stations never been up and running, i only see them working in phoenix park on the connolly-maynooth line.

also, (apologies this may have been asked before) why can't they link the connolly to hueston line with the existing track which goes under phoenix park, this would save an underground dart/metro?

[ThomasJ]

The digital board at Phoenix Park (what about dunboyne line?) is only useful if the train is on time. Because the system that tracks DARTs (mini CTC) does not work beyond Drumcondra, there is no way of tracking a Maynooth line train beyond Drumcondra. As a result the Phoenix park board will only show EXPECTED times of arrivals. If a train is late it doesn't show it or if its cancelled will still show it.

Its the same with parts of the Drogheda line, Greystones, and the Heuston-Kildare line. There is a "real time train information" section on the irish rail website http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey/results.asp you can search for Maynooth line stations and it will bring back results for them but beware the results are not LIVE and as a result will probably not be accurate.

Note the Disclamer on that site:

Our central signalling system is subject to ongoing work to support this real-time facility. However real-time information has weaker coverage in certain areas, these include:
• Hazelhatch - Heuston Line
• Athlone - Westport/Ballina Line
• Charleville - Cork/Cobh/Midleton Line
• Mallow - Tralee Line
• Ballybrophy - Limerick Line
• Limerick - Ennis Line
• Athy - Waterford Line
• Limerick Junction Station
• Limerick Junction - Rosslare Line
• Greystones - Rosslare Line
• Drogheda - Belfast Line
• Drumcondra - Sligo Line

In these cases your query will return the scheduled time only

I know, its been like this for years, and I am sick and tired of bringing it up, its also brought up alot at clonsilla station why there is no live information at the station, we will be waiting years for this!

[Mark Gleeson]

The panels will only work once the new signaling goes in. The entire Maynooth line including Dunboyne is controlled from Maynooth so the data isn't available. Clonsilla to Connolly has to be resignalled (it dates from 1976 currently)

The Kildare line now does work west of Cherry Orchard in the online tracker and from Sunday week will work the whole way to Cork when Limerick Junction is automated

[bg07]

Does it not work on the Cork/Cobh/Midleton Line now seen as the signaling on the 2 lines is only a few months old?

[Mark Gleeson]

Cork-Cobh/Midleton is controlled from a panel in Cork station now.

To have the automatic display panels you need automatic routing so the system knows the timetable and can match that with trains moving around.

A plan exists to control the entire network from one building in Dublin, and progressively all routes are being transferred over. They need a bigger building so there is a delay there

Cork (Rathpeacon) - Cherry Orchard, Athlone-Portarlington and Limerick - Limerick Junction curve are controlled from one floor, Dundalk - Greystones, Broombridge - Connolly - Docklands, Enfield - Sligo from another floor

[bg07]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Cork-Cobh/Midleton is controlled from a panel in Cork station now.

To have the automatic display panels you need automatic routing so the system knows the timetable and can match that with trains moving around.

A plan exists to control the entire network from one building in Dublin, and progressively all routes are being transferred over. They need a bigger building so there is a delay there

Cork (Rathpeacon) - Cherry Orchard, Athlone-Portarlington and Limerick - Limerick Junction curve are controlled from one floor, Dundalk - Greystones, Broombridge - Connolly - Docklands, Enfield - Sligo from another floor

Is the new control building/extension under construction/imminent construction or is it a pipe dream that is definitively not going to see the light of day for at least a decade now that the IMF and friends are in town?

[Mark Gleeson]

Its included in the Dublin City Centre signaling project. The centralisation will results in considerable efficiencies as the new system is effectively automatic

Limerick Junction goes automatic next weekend, that will eliminate 2 signal cabins and hence 6 shifts 7 days a week, roughly 500k saving per annum.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Cork-Cobh/Midleton is controlled from a panel in Cork station now.

To have the automatic display panels you need automatic routing so the system knows the timetable and can match that with trains moving around.

A plan exists to control the entire network from one building in Dublin, and progressively all routes are being transferred over. They need a bigger building so there is a delay there

Cork (Rathpeacon) - Cherry Orchard, Athlone-Portarlington and Limerick - Limerick Junction curve are controlled from one floor, Dundalk - Greystones, Broombridge - Connolly - Docklands, Enfield - Sligo from another floor

Just out of interest how much is it costing it to manually operate the maynooth line and how much could they save by automating it

And how come they only cover broombridge-Connolly-docklands? Could that not be extended to maynooth?

[Mark Gleeson]

The original signalling arrangements were West Rd (electro mechanical), Liffey Junction (mechanical), Clonsilla (electric panel + mechanical) and Maynooth (mechanical)

West Rd, Liffey Junction were automated as part of Connolly West in 1991 and are part of the real-time system hence Docklands and Drumcondra have working display.

When the Maynooth line was resignalled the existing panel at Clonsilla was connected to Maynooth and controlled from there

Maynooth line automation won't save on staff costs, but once everything is brought to Dublin things can be rejigged

[ThomasJ]

but mark isnt there a private company operating the signalling.How much are they receiving to operate it?

[Mark Gleeson]

Signaling is operated by Irish Rail staff, the equipment is provided by an international signaling company, generally Westinghouse.

[Mickey H]

A plan exists to control the entire network from one building in Dublin

PLEASE NO !

One small electrical fire and large parts if not the entire railway could shut down for months. Happened in Vienna last year and in Holland this week

[Mark Gleeson]

There is a fall back to a number of local control rooms if required, local staff are trained to take over if required. In the absence of a human presence the system defaults to a automatic mode.

[ThomasJ]

so the signalling changes over the weekend were more or less at local level, clonsilla taking over the role over maynooths signalling system, meaning the real-time is still unworkable for most maynooth line stations.

Does anyone not find it a disgrace that over 10 years after they were installed, yes over 10 years later these things are still not working and that we may actually see the real-time on the city bus service before we even have a hope of these things working!

A disgrace!

[dowlingm]

So presumably the Clonsilla takeover means less personnel with Maynooth cabin deprecated? Is the resulting signalling more/less efficient or no change beyond staffing?

[ColmmacO]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

so the signalling changes over the weekend were more or less at local level, clonsilla taking over the role over maynooths signalling system, meaning the real-time is still unworkable for most maynooth line stations.

Does anyone not find it a disgrace that over 10 years after they were installed, yes over 10 years later these things are still not working and that we may actually see the real-time on the city bus service before we even have a hope of these things working!

A disgrace!

Absolutley.
I really cant see why a basic GPS based system cant be set up in the meantime to relay train locations to the information displays outside the area covered by the newer signalling.
It would be a lot easier to implement than the dublin bus style system as the train can only follow certain routes and stop at certain points.
It may not be perfect but it would certainly fill a gap.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by ColmmacO

Absolutley.
I really cant see why a basic GPS based system cant be set up in the meantime to relay train locations to the information displays outside the area covered by the newer signalling.
It would be a lot easier to implement than the dublin bus style system as the train can only follow certain routes and stop at certain points.
It may not be perfect but it would certainly fill a gap.

Good point! I agree with you.

It could be implemented on routes that have yet to get the new system.

If Dublin bus can do surely Irish rail can as well!

[Mark Gleeson]

The Intercity fleet is being GPS fitted for that purpose currently

The signaling between Clonsilla and Broombridge is to be ripped out and replaced it pre computer 1975 stuff and low capacity so hard to accurately record a trains location.

The old panel at Clonsilla does not have a train describer, without that you have no hope of being able to do live updates

[ColmmacO]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The Intercity fleet is being GPS fitted for that purpose currently

The signaling between Clonsilla and Broombridge is to be ripped out and replaced it pre computer 1975 stuff and low capacity so hard to accurately record a trains location.

The old panel at Clonsilla does not have a train describer, without that you have no hope of being able to do live updates

Ok, but how about you forget about the signalling / panels altogether?
Each GPS system could send out an identifier (09.20 Maynooth Connolly) along with its position (which can be compared to a known set of station GPS co-ordinates) and the time. A central system can then decode this info, put it up on the web, and relay it to the info displays at stations.
It would require a bit of retrofitting of trains and displays but nothing too serious imo.

[Mark Gleeson]

Thats being done for the intercity fleet currently