Wicklow Train Overcrowding Today 23/09/08

[ErnestGoodheart]

Irish Rail again showing they don't give a toss about any service that doesn't have the letters D, A, R & T in the title.

4 carraiges this morning leaving Wicklow at 7:30am.

Only 5% or so of the people gettin on at Wicklow got a seat.

Elderly people standing, for well over an hour. Granted someone should have given their seat, but that's not the point.

Was the 6:40 cancelled or something?

[Roy Boy]

This train seems to be minus a couple of carriages every morning now !
So that means most people seem to stand from Wicklow.
Can any one tell us why?

[Mark Gleeson]

Though denied there is a shortage of coaches, the fleet is overstretched so a single breakdown results in a problem. Its classic bad planning by Irish Rail.

Rosslare line is generally chosen as it has the highest ratio of seats to passengers than any other route. Even on a normal day with full length trains you would get left behind on most other routes

[KSW]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Rosslare line is generally chosen as it has the highest ratio of seats to passengers

Seen last nights 17:25 from Connolly to Gorey(Enniscorthy) it was a 2X2 2800 set which I have to say looked small rather than seeing a 29000 4 coach set the 2800 dont look right without 6coaches When are the new 22000 railcars coming into operation????

[Mark Gleeson]

If the Maynooth line passengers discovered how much standing room is available on the Gorey services there would be trouble.

Sadly it works like this, if you take 2 coaches off the Maynooth line you leave about 200 people behind, take 2 coaches off the Rosslare line you are unlikely to leave anyone behind.

Given the mess that is Irish Rail, first priority is to get to your destination. That can be trouble enough, once Irish Rail master that hopefully they can sort out getting the trains on time, followed by a seat for everyone

[ErnestGoodheart]

Considering they strat upping prices it is a disgrace.

Same again today. Standing from Wicklow for the whole 80 Minute Trip.

Thankfully, I am on the 109 Bus from Dunshaughlin most mornings now, slightly better service. Always get a seat. Even if 3 buses pass you before on eventually stops 20 minutes later. Tounge, firmly in cheek.

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

.... followed by a seat for everyone

That is a stupid and unrealistic aspiration. No commuter service in the world provides, or even attempts to provide 100% seating at all times - it is simply not viable or realistic to do so without huge subvention or much, much higher fares to pay for additional stock which makes just two runs per day (plus of course the empty runs to get to and from depot, with which you also disagree).

LC

[ThomasJ]

The key word here laoiscommuter being empty and by the way many of those empty services are not going to the depot.

Out of interest, do you agree with the 15-20 % increase in annual tax tickets

[ErnestGoodheart]

Originally Posted by Laois Commuter

No commuter service in the world provides, or even attempts to provide 100% seating at all times
LC

It would be nice if the could even manage to provide more than 55%/60% thought wouldn't it.

At the end of the day, I spent enough bloody money on that service to be entitled to a seat for an 80 minute journey.

The fact that IE can send out DARTS with 90% of the seats available several times during the day yet cannot manage 1 or two trains coming from the south show their lack of respect for the customer and operational know how for their business.

[KSW]

Originally Posted by ErnestGoodheart

1 or two trains coming from the south show their lack of respect

I wouldnt say lack of respect behond Greystones to Wicklow/Rosslare, I have seen a good improvment on this line with the new signalling etc.. etc.. If the Maynooth line needs 2extra coaches I think Iarnrod Eireann should take all of the 6coach 2800 sets and replace them with a 29000 4coach sets. It is quiet on this line I think the Maynooth line should have 6coach set and simply replace with 29000 sets. These trains are I think better with acceleration and PA etc.. etc..

Hopefully this years timetable(2009) will see changes on this route

[ErnestGoodheart]

Originally Posted by KSW

I wouldnt say lack of respect behond Greystones to Wicklow/Rosslare, I have seen a good improvment on this line with the new signalling

But it's no where near the standard that it should be. I know we all have our gripes for our individual trains but the Wicklow just isn't good enough or any where near value for money.

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

The key word here laoiscommuter being empty and by the way many of those empty services are not going to the depot.

Out of interest, do you agree with the 15-20 % increase in annual tax tickets

I would suggest "some" rather than "many". BUt I don't have access to the working timetable, so can't coment. Do you? My comment was aimed at the generality of posts on that subject.

As to the fare increase, whether I agree or not is irrelevent. I can construct arguements both ways fairly easily. My guess is that CIE and/or it's constituents hedge a significant part of their fuel on an annual basis to coincide with the financial year to allow for budget stability, and given the last year a rise is inevitable, even if the current spot price has dropped. OPEC have got used to these price levels now, so if prices drop much more a cut in supply is likely to boost them again.

I haven't the time at the moment to do a price calculation, but assuming 47 5-day weeks I suspect that a commuter travelling into Heuston and using the 90/91 into the city will be better with an annual ticket even at full cost, whereas someone from Howth Jun to the IFSC may not be. That is the nature of zonal fares, and perhaps point to point ones should be offered as well - but that would be a complication. I have just renewed my annual (point to point) Taxsaver, so am covered for the next year. What also should be remembered is that (a) the Taxsaver scheme means that the actual price paid is effectively around 26/47% less than the headline fare, so in practice will still be cheaper, and (b) compared to the UK season ticket fares here are cheap, even with the devaluation of Sterling. I posted on another thread somewhere a comparison between Portarlington - Heuston and Sheffield - Nottingham.

The amount of the rise? I haven't access to their accounts. But experience shows that inflation in the transport industry tends to be significantly more than any headline rates, as insurance, fuel and wages tend to be above that rate, and are the major daily costs. The question is, over a period of 5-10 years, have the prices kept up with inflation? If not, this is catch up time - it comes to us all in the end.

LC

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by ErnestGoodheart

It would be nice if the could even manage to provide more than 55%/60% thought wouldn't it.

At the end of the day, I spent enough bloody money on that service to be entitled to a seat for an 80 minute journey.

The fact that IE can send out DARTS with 90% of the seats available several times during the day yet cannot manage 1 or two trains coming from the south show their lack of respect for the customer and operational know how for their business.

With respect, you got where you were going. Breakdowns will always occur. Operators do not have fleets of spare trains sitting there to cover every possible eventuality.



DART is a very different operation - an order of magnitude greater. The logisitics of joining and dividing trains on every other trip to match demand exactly is doomed to failure, creating unreliability and additional costs. In the UK, South West Trains bit that bullet in (I think) 2004, running full length trains across the whole of the day, together with reviewing the timetable; there operational performance went up dramatically.

Finally, what "operational know how" do you have? Which would you prefer - to stand, or the train be cancelled altogether? Your post hints that something may have gone wrong elsewhere. It happens. Decisions have to be made in the interests of the majority of travellers - and as Mark G said in his post, the least worst effect is on the Rosslare line. One occasion where I agree with him!

LC

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Laois Commuter

That is a stupid and unrealistic aspiration. No commuter service in the world provides, or even attempts to provide 100% seating at all times - it is simply not viable or realistic to do so without huge subvention or much, much higher fares to pay for additional stock which makes just two runs per day (plus of course the empty runs to get to and from depot, with which you also disagree).

LC

Everyone travelling from outside the Dublin suburban area, Wicklow, Sallins, Drogheda etc should get a seat, no questions. It is perfectly reasonable that sufficent seats be provided for all with a journey time in the 40 minutes plus bracket.

For reference in the UK the target is no passenger to stand more than 20 minutes

No one has any problems with standing on commuter services over short distances, standing from Wicklow to Dublin is a 1 hour+ stand which isn't on and is well beyond the standards in the UK.

There is something very strange going on with the Rosslare line over the last few days, this morning trains both to and from Rosslare where short again. While the Rosslare line is the easiest target for a short train Dockland services would get by with a 2 coach set instead of 4. Irish Rail of course are saying nothing

[dowlingm]

wait until Wicklow people continue to be sardined because carriages are siphoned off for the WRC to run virtually empty.

[ErnestGoodheart]

Originally Posted by Laois Commuter

With respect, you got where you were going. Breakdowns will always occur. Operators do not have fleets of spare trains sitting there to cover every possible eventuality.

Finally, what "operational know how" do you have? Which would you prefer - to stand, or the train be cancelled altogether?

LC

I got where I was going? Is that not what I am paying all this money for? It's the level of service at the moment that is as ridiculous as that comment.

They have reduced the amount of carraiges on this train from 6 to 4. So before you have little cheap jibes about my knowledge, maybe you should go figure out how they cannot manage to keep up the level of 'service' that they used to provide.

Guessing you work for IE Laois Commuter, you are starting to sound like Mr Fearn, CEO of IE, trying to defend himself in the Metro.

[sublimity]

Originally Posted by ErnestGoodheart

I got where I was going? Is that not what I am paying all this money for? It's the level of service at the moment that is as ridiculous as that comment.

They have reduced the amount of carraiges on this train from 6 to 4. So before you have little cheap jibes about my knowledge, maybe you should go figure out how they cannot manage to keep up the level of 'service' that they used to provide.

Guessing you work for IE Laois Commuter, you are starting to sound like Mr Fearn, CEO of IE, trying to defend himself in the Metro.

The 22000 trains will be on the rosslare line by january- only 3 months to go! No more maynooth - rosslare crap. A nice 6 car evening service from dublin CONNOLLY to Rosslare Europort to look forward to

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by sublimity

The 22000 trains will be on the rosslare line by january- only 3 months to go! No more maynooth - rosslare crap. A nice 6 car evening service from dublin CONNOLLY to Rosslare Europort to look forward to

All Dublin Gorey services will remain commuter trains. An entire 8 coach railcar is being relocated to Cork as part of the WRC shakeup so the net gain is very little really in the face of the continuous growth.

No one south of Greystones should have to stand, its just not on really, once in a blue moon fine, but we are now on the second week of this rubbish

[ErnestGoodheart]

Originally Posted by sublimity

The 22000 trains will be on the rosslare line by january- only 3 months to go! No more maynooth - rosslare crap. A nice 6 car evening service from dublin CONNOLLY to Rosslare Europort to look forward to

That'd be just fantastic! Now, onto my next gripe. I want table service and an a la carte menu in the evenings! (With a vegetarian option every day.)

[sublimity]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

All Dublin Gorey services will remain commuter trains. An entire 8 coach railcar is being relocated to Cork as part of the WRC shakeup so the net gain is very little really in the face of the continuous growth.

No one south of Greystones should have to stand, its just not on really, once in a blue moon fine, but we are now on the second week of this rubbish

I don't mind commuter trains dublin gorey so much. At least we'll have proper intercity trains for the full distance very soon.

Will you be on the radio anytime soon voicing your displeasure with IE?